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Hillary Zama

Episode 75: Pro Organizer Turned Published Author! Meet Hillary Zama

Mar 30

Hillary Zama joins Jen Obermeier to talk about her newly published book, “Spruce Up: A Professional Organizer’s Guide for Your Home, Your Body, and Your Life.”

Have you ever thought about taking your professional organizing talents to the page? Our Inspired Organizer® Hillary Zama decided to take a dream and an idea and make it a reality–she is now a published author, with her book “Spruce Up: A Professional Organizer’s Guide for Your Home, Your Body, and Your Life” being out in the world. Hillary walks us through the publishing process and the goal-setting process that got her through taking her lifelong love of writing from an idea to a finished book. 

If you are considering starting or growing a professional organizing business, we have a brand new for 2021, totally free workshop you can take that goes beyond this podcast–you can register here if you want to check it out!

Links for listeners:

Buy Hillary’s book here: Spruce Up

Want to join the group that Hillary joined to get her business started?
Here is information about our Inspired Organizer® group.

Hillary’s website:


Bonus Guide download



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Jen Obermeier: I’m so excited to be interviewing professional organizer. Hillary Zama of Spruce Up in Colorado Springs. Hillary has a book coming out called Spruce Up: A Professional Organizer’s Guide to Your Home, Your Body and Your Life. Hillary is a member of our Inspired Organizer® community. And I have been thrilled to watch her take the concept from a dream to a reality. I know that you will all enjoy her story just as much as I did. Thank you so much for listening in.

Hillary. I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. Welcome. 

Hillary Zama: [00:01:00] Thank you so much for having me. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:01:03] Hey, so, so Hillary, this is, this is really exciting for me because you have been you’ve been a part of the inspired organizer community, and one of my students for quite some time. Is it, it’s a very interesting, we have an interesting backstory for the audience today because Hillary is publishing a brand new book right now.

Which is exciting in itself, but I, we were just trying to recount behind the scenes here, how long ago it was that I first was aware like Hillary and I had been discussing on Facebook in our group that she had had this goal of writing a book. And it was during one of my video chats that I said, if any, one of my students ever writes a book about organizing or really about anything, but.

I said, I would be like over the moon. I would, I would say like, I would just help you like market it, launch it, like do anything. Cause I’m thinking to myself at this time and still today, there’s nothing inherently different or special about someone like Marie Kondo who wrote a book, the magic art of tidying up.

Of course we have lots of other amazing organizing books out there . But Hillary and I never forgot that conversation. Cause Hillary kind of like virtually raised her hand that day and said, yes, that is one of my goals. And I said, awesome. You’ll let me know when this happens. And I’m like going to be there and like cheerlead you and be so excited for you.

Well, not too long ago. And this is, this is what March of 20 21, not to long ago. After, after some time gone by and every once in a while, I’d think about it. And I would say, I wonder how Hillary’s book is going. And she writes me and says, Jen I’m publishing a book. I was like, So that’s what we’re going to talk about today, guys, I’m Hillary, I would love for you to kind of introduce yourself and say a little bit about your organizing business journey, how you got started, what that has been like.

And, you know, we’ll catch up to the part where you actually decide I’m going to be the next Marie Kondo and yes, for sure. 

Hillary Zama: [00:02:57] So my name is Hillary Zima and I’m a professional organizer here in Colorado Springs and the owner of spruce of LLC. And my goal is to help busy women minimize clutter and organize their homes because I believe that when you spruce up your home, it propels you to spruce up.

The rest of your life. And that’s really a big part about what the book is about. So just a little bit about my backstory. I launched spruce up two years ago, I believe in March. And before that I was actually a classical ballet teacher for about 14 years and also so a production manager for our pre-professional company for about three years.

So both of those jobs, I kind of look at as helping prepare me for organizing without even really knowing it. When you’re a teacher, you have to learn how to be really patient and understanding what some students and also learn how to communicate really clearly and confidently. And so that was definitely a skill that I noticed translated into working with clients.

And then as for production manager, my job was actually to organize like backstage supplies and props and costumes and even dancers, really. So it’s just funny to look at. Just the ways that I was already kind of using that skillset before I even learned that professional organizing was a thing.

And once I found out that professional organizing was a thing, it was kind of like a no brainer. Like, Oh my gosh, I have to do this. Yeah. This is my dream job. And I never even knew it. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:04:37] Yeah. So, is there a backstory behind the name of your business? 

Hillary Zama: [00:04:43] You know, I. I was I was trying to think of something kind of nature-y I think Magnolia brand was kind of an inspiration.

Like I want something like catchy and naturey. And I, I really love, you know, the outdoors of Colorado. And so I was like, Oh, spruce spruce would be cool. Spruce it up, spruce up. Yeah. So I landed on spruce up and. Just kind of felt like a good fit for the brand. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:05:13] Yeah, that is perfect. That is perfect. So. Let’s rewind backwards even further. Have you, are you one of those people who you are always like one day, I just want to publish a book. Like I don’t even know what it will be about. Like, has that kind of always been a goal of yours or was it kind of more related to wanting to get the message out specifically about organizing and kind of mental clutter and that kind of thing?

Hillary Zama: [00:05:34] Yes. So I have actually always wanted to be an author. It’s been my dream since I was probably 10, I can first remember. Yeah. And I’ve always just been in love with books and story. And I actually wrote my first two books in high school and even attempted to get them published. They were terrible and I’m so glad they were not published, but that’s kind of when my journey began, I was writing like young adult fiction and then my writing kind of took a detour after that.

I kind of dabbled in songwriting for a little bit. I had a blog where I posted weekly book reviews of just what I was reading. And then in my mid twenties, I would say I came back to writing section and I wrote two more young adult fantasy books also attempted to get those published. Wow. Oh, I have, I have yet to have a book, but it’s always been a dream of mine and kind of like I was saying, it’s always looked slightly different, whether it’s writing fiction or writing blog posts or, you know, writing songs.

So I didn’t actually write anything non-fiction until after I started spruce up. And it kind of just felt like this natural next step with my business, like just things I was learning as I was working with clients and kind of beginning to make my own system for spruce up that I wanted to make my own book.

And it’s kind of funny because for the longest time I had a hard time kind of connecting organizing and writing it sounds funny to say that, because now that I’m working on an organizing buckets, like, well, obviously that’s the perfect blend of both worlds, but it took me a while to decide. Yeah, I’m going to write an organizing guide and it kind of just took off from there.

Jen Obermeier: [00:07:28] Can you, so for someone out there who’s like, how in the world is someone’s self publish a book?  Can you demystify that process a little bit? Because I think that that’s one of the more intimidating things to other people about authors in general is like, how, like, how did that even happen?

Like, did it magically fall out of the sky? Well, I think in this day and age, a lot of people don’t realize is that you can self publish a book and you don’t have to wait for someone to come along and give you like a huge book deal. So talk to us about that. 

Hillary Zama: [00:07:57] Yeah, I think I first became interested in self publishing for sure with the spruce up book before that I was very set on.

I want to be, you know, a traditionally published author. And that’s really the route I was trying to take, but it is a very difficult not impossible, but it’s difficult to break into that unless you have like a huge following or You’re like a celebrity it’s, it’s difficult to write a self-help book and get it traditionally published unless it’s, you know, one of those things.

So I, I was kind of against self publishing just because I think it didn’t feel as official, which is not true, but I really started to pursue that. Just recently I would say maybe last fall and the process is a little daunting, I would say, which is why it’s one of the reasons I didn’t want to self publish is because when you self publish, you are essentially taking on the work of, you know, a literary agent and editor, a publishing house, a marketing team. You’re really taking all of those different jobs on yourself. 

And it’s kind of like as a professional organizer, you know, you start your organizing business because you want to organize and then you end up wearing all these different hats, like and marketing and social media manager and exempt site creator.

So it’s very similar to that with writing. So I wrote the book, it went through many of my own revisions, and then it went through different edits with outside eyes and it went through, you know, professional edits. I hired a proofreader and then I’m working pretty closely with Basically line by line editor.

Wow. Yeah. So, I do, if anyone out there is really interested in self publishing, I do recommend getting outside help if you want it to look and feel as professional as possible. I think, you know, anyone can self publish these days, but it is difficult to make it really cohesive and professional looking without those kind of outside professional eyes.

That is, and then as far as. Yeah. As far as the actual publishing part goes, I’m going through Amazon. So I’m going to have like a Kindle version and they have a print on demand service. So if you’d like to get a paperback copy it’s all through Amazon. So you put in your order and they’re in charge of the printing and the distribution.

It’s, it’s really amazing. What is possible these days.

Jen Obermeier: [00:10:44] No. That’s exactly right. And you’re not having to like buy 30,000 copies of your own book and then like sell them yourself. It’s amazing that the technology is out there for that. And I bet you so many people did not realize that until just now. So now before that, was was your, was your general framework. And I would love for you to just touch on this a little bit. Like you came up with a unique, or at least, you know, even though they’re not unique ideas, the way that you explain it as a framework in your book is unique. Because at the end of the day, we all know like, Every organizing system gets the same thing done in different ways.

So how did you already sort of have that framework before you started writing or did you sort of have to get it out first and then organize it into something that you knew would be helpful to other people. 

Hillary Zama: [00:11:35] Yeah, I think it was the second. I think it just took working with different clients and cause you know, it’s different when you organize for yourself and then you start working with different people because when you organize for yourself, you’re like, well, this is the way I organize.

Yeah, but then when you work with clients, it’s different almost every time. It’s like, Oh, well this is how I’m organizing with this client. And this is how this client needs to hear it. And just learning almost different ways of teaching, you know, the same thing essentially, but in different ways they could receive it and apply it.

So I think the more I worked with clients it really helped just kind of create I guess a workflow for the way I organize. And it just started coming together. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:12:21] Did you read a lot of other organizing books while you were researching or did you try to avoid that? Cause I probably would have gone on like a three-year reading binge because I would’ve thought I need to read all of them before I can come up with.

Hillary Zama: [00:12:34] Yeah. That’s actually an interesting question because before I guess I realized that professional organizing was a thing. I was reading as many resources as I could. So I would say it was like the summer of 2018 when I was just going through a lot of life changes and I moved several times and every time I moved, I was Just wanting to get rid of more and get more organized.

And so I was really getting with my hands on as many books as I could at that time. And then I launched my business the following year, March, 2019. So. By then I was still like reading books here and there as they came out, I think I got the home edit and but I wasn’t really using those as researched.

I, I definitely had all that information, I think after like the first time I read all of them, but I think I was trying to go more off of my personal work with my clients. Yeah. And trying to figure out how to put that into writing. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:13:39] Yeah, I can see it both ways for sure. Like one where you want to really look at what’s working for other people in terms of how to explain it and teach it. And then the other part where you’re like, well, I need it to just sort of come unfiltered through my, like you said, like from your perspective and from your experience. So it sounds like you kind of did a little bit of both, which makes so much sense. It’s impressive. 

And I have to point this out that you did not get bogged down in that. Like research and comparison stage forever. Cause I think that’s like a lot of us would have done it. We were like, ah, this is because this is not the first organizing book that’s ever been written. Right. And I, and I think that, and you say this in your book, which I love, which is that, you know, it doesn’t have to be perfect.

It has to get the job done. And so you applied that to your in process, which I’m like that’s genius. That’s awesome. 

Hillary Zama: [00:14:31] Thank you. And, and that’s that’s saying something because I’m such a recovering perfectionist and I’m like, it has to be perfect. And, you know, I don’t want to put it out there unless it’s perfect. And so just kind of learning that while I give my clients permission to not be perfect, I need to give myself that same permission. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:14:51] Absolutely. Absolutely. So I have a couple of other questions for you, and this is just totally curious, exploring the possibilities now that you are going to have a book out on Amazon.

I know obviously, you know, people, people first major benefit people will be able to find out about you that are way far out of your area of Colorado Springs. So it’s something that is going to sort of expand your your reach far beyond your local area. Are, do you have plans or are you going to use the book at all in order to potentially have VR more virtual clients, virtual consultations, like services that you are working with people over the internet. 

Hillary Zama: [00:15:33] Yeah, I actually I’m hoping that having a book out will open those kinds of doors that you’re talking about. So it’s not just to have the book out. For the book itself, but just kind of the possibilities that could come from it. So I actually love working from home. So I do love working one-on-one with clients, but I would love to do more virtual organizing.

I would really love to create some courses. And probably a podcast down the road. So I’m kind of exploring more of the online business side of things. And like I said, I still love working one-on-one with clients. So I’d probably want to do that selectively, but yeah, just kind of a little bit more of the online space.

Jen Obermeier: [00:16:21] Absolutely. And this is going to be such a good platform for you to build out from that. I think what I think is really interesting actually, is that you, I feel like a lot of people would like put this all like in a certain order, like I’ll, I’ll start a podcast or I’ll. You know, start all the video content and I’ll get all the clients.

And then one day, quote, unquote, one day I’ll be, you know, qualified enough to write a book. I’ll be a big enough deal to write a book, but I love that. Like you’re leading with that. And then everything else can also like be an offshoot of what, what is really resonating with people about you and the way that you break it down for them.

Because sometimes we need to hear things in like 1400 different ways before it finally is like, this is the thing that clicked for me, you know, it helps. More productive or it helps me finally get the big, impossible job done. 

Hillary Zama: [00:17:11] Yeah, for sure. And I think for so long, I. You know, like I was saying, my dream has always been to be an author and I just always thought like, well, one day it’ll happen, men I think I just had this realization, like, no, one’s going to show up at my door and be like, would you like a book contract? If I wanted to be an author, I really needed to take action on it. And so that’s why I ended up just being like, you know, I’m going to self publish and. I think this will be really great for my business and open new doors and opportunities.

And I just kind of gave myself a deadline and said, okay, I’m going for it. There’s no, there’s no one showing up to give me this, you know, dream book contract. So I’m just going for it. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:17:53] Tell us more about that deadline? Like how did you break down the work? Like how did you write a little bit every day? Did you like binge work and like write some days a lot and then other days, none.

Like what was your personal process? 

Hillary Zama: [00:18:07] Yeah, I really tried to write in the mornings cause that’s my, you know, creative. State. So I really tried to make the most of that. And then once it was written, I just started the other parts of the process, like finding a book, cover designer and finding an editor and, you know, creating extra resources for it, like a bonus guide. And so I really tried to do it one thing at a time, like the writing process, like I was saying every morning. And then once it was written, just focused on revisions and editing. And after that more like design stuff. And then the whole time I was pretty much researching the publishing process.

Cause I’m, I’m not very familiar with the self publishing process until now. So it was just kind of like learning along the way. And every day I would just. You know, take one more step forward. Even if I was like, I don’t, I don’t know what I need to do today to recycle. And I would just try to identify like, what, what road blocks do I have right now?

Like, I don’t know how to do this. Okay. Go watch the YouTube video and learn how to do it and then implement. And so that’s honestly a lot of what my routine looked like, I guess. Yeah. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:19:20] YouTube diversity. Yes. It’s there on demand. How long did the actual writing take you? 

Hillary Zama: [00:19:29] Well, I officially started writing it in summer of 2019, I want to say. And it was done by january, 2021. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:19:44] Okay. But you said there was a time where you kind of set it down for a while and then came back. If you were to like guesstimate, like how many months you actually spent writing it, how, how much would you say? 

Hillary Zama: [00:19:55] You know? Six to eight months maybe. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. And I’m sure I could have written it, you know, quicker than that, but I’m a perfectionist. So I was constantly going back and working on old things I had written, which you know, is, is not great writing advice. I’ve heard. You’re just supposed to. So like get through the first draft without looking back and re you know, revising or whatever.

And that’s hard for me. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:20:21] No, I,  know exactly what you’re saying. Sometimes things just, you have to like, let it marinate for a little while I had to say it. 

Hillary Zama: [00:20:29] And then I had to think about how I wanted to say it. And then I had to say it again. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:20:32] Yeah. That makes sense. As an editing process, like I’m not writing teacher.

So speaking of writing teachers. Who? I mean, I know that, like you said, you did have such a great, great background in writing. I’m sure you must have had some teachers or people that you looked up to along the way. Like, can you tell us about who those inspirations are? 

Hillary Zama: [00:20:51] Yes, for sure. So I actually went to, I think, four writing conferences over the past few years some of them were in denver, one of them was in Nashville. And they were specifically for fiction, but just learned really good writing techniques and tools, and got to hear from some amazing keynote speakers. Diana Gabaldon is the author of the Outlander series and she was actually one of our speakers 

Jen Obermeier: [00:21:19] stop. Oh my God. I love it. That’s, that’s incredible. You got to learn from her. Yeah. 

Hillary Zama: [00:21:25] And I, I hadn’t even experienced any of her Outlander stuff. So when she came to speak, I was kind of just mesmerized by her teaching. And then I got my hands on all the books of course, but she was a really big influence for me.

Another keynote speaker was the author of the Aragon series. Christopher Pellini. So got to learn from him as well. And, and then just a lot of the books I’ve read along the way, like Marie Kondo and the home edit books Francine J I love so just kind of gleaning what I can from different authors, whether it’s, you know, they write fiction or nonfiction and just kind of learning along the way.

Jen Obermeier: [00:22:08] That is so incredible. What advice would you give to somebody who like. Did not say, say, say it’s me. Maybe it is me. I like, I actually don’t. I don’t have a lot of, I don’t have a lot of like previous. Formal experience with writing. But I, in my mind, if I have this book idea and I think of myself as like, not really being a real writer, even though I have written a million things informally, I think there’s like a block in my head.

Like, what would you say to somebody like me who it’s like, I don’t really have that background and that passion necessarily to lean on, because I feel like that’s one thing you do have is that you had a clear passion and talent for it that you have been nurturing since like you were a kid, but if I just have a message that I want to put into a book and I feel that that’s important to me, like, how would you advise somebody who doesn’t have that same stuff that you do? Like, could they, how could they easily still try to chip away at it? Like you did if that’s even possible? 

Hillary Zama: [00:23:09] Yeah, I think. One of the things I would say is just picture one reader that you’re writing to and, you know, make it like, you know, what am I trying to get across to this one person?

Almost like when you write a blog post, you know, you have. Someone in mind, who’s going to read that. And instead of thinking like really big, like all of these readers who might read the book, it’s like, what would I try to get across to one person? And part of the way you get that across is your, your writer’s voice.

And these days I think people really resonate with voices who are just relatable and  conversational So, yeah, that would be some of my advice. 

And then I think I’ve also heard of writers who, you know, wouldn’t consider themselves writers who have spoken like recorded themselves, just talking on a certain topic and then they have that transcribed.

And then from there they have that transcription to work with and then they can edit it and play around with it from there. So that’s kind of another option. If you don’t feel like you’re a writer, 

Jen Obermeier: [00:24:24] that’s actually, that’s really good advice that I’ve used myself many times, because it’s easier for me to start verbal processing, go back later and try to make it make sense and written for that because I can talk a blue streak about pretty much anything, but there’s something so intimidating.

And I know that a lot of other people feel that way about, about sitting down to write something where you feel like it has to come out. You know,  perfectly or sensibly the first time, but when we’re talking to friends, we don’t worry about Senate structure and how long. And, and, and I think that that does help it come across more genuine also.

Hillary Zama: [00:25:00] Yeah. You know, the funny thing about that though, is I’m the opposite. So oftentimes I don’t know what I’m actually thinking or feeling until I write it down. You know, as a journal or a blog post or writing. And it’s like, Oh, if I could only, you know, communicate through writing is when I try to talk, then I’m like, wait, what am I trying to say again? So it’s funny, the different kind of styles and personalities. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:25:24] Completely agree. I feel like everybody needs to kind of know their way of expressing and processing because we do need that some of us need talk therapy, others need writing therapy actually there’s many other way, hopefully many other ways to get it, to get it out.

Yeah. It’s another to accomplish this first goal. I know it sounds like your fiction writing is still really important to you. Helping, you know, help having this book help you build out your organizing business. Do you still consider yourself, do you consider yourself more like an author is really who you are?

It sounds like that’s something that’s still is a really big. Thing that you will still be working on? 

Hillary Zama: [00:26:06] Yeah. Yeah, I think I definitely want to continue to write books. I think I want to explore different like niches in  organizing and just keep, keep writing after this one’s out there.

But I definitely Yeah, I would call myself an author and a professional organizer and a business owner, like all the hats and I kind of want to continue all of those, you know? Yeah. That’s incredible. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:26:30] And just out of curiosity, when you mentioned to your clients, or have you mentioned your clients that you’re like, well, you know, I am publishing a book on organizing, like what, what is their response.

Hillary Zama: [00:26:41] Yeah. I actually just worked with a client a couple of days ago and she was like, Oh, so what have you been up to? And I’m like, Oh, well I’m actually publishing a book. And she was so surprised. She was like, Oh my goodness. That’s so cool. You know, tell me all about it. And she’s like,

definitely not. But yeah, I just, I was like, well, you’re, you’re It’s definitely the system I use with use. So you’re experiencing firsthand a lot of the things that I’m putting in my book. So basically getting a copy of the book is going to be like hiring a professional organizer for a fraction of the cost.

Cause there’s a lot of the same things I tell my clients that I put in the book. It’s like, these are the tools, you know, Find a way that works for you and implement them. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:27:29] Yeah. Well, the difference now is that your clients will now be working with a celebrity professional or organizer, not just a regular professional organizer. I mean, no seriously though. There is definitely something to that. I feel like when people do hire you from now on there, they will have a different sort of like, Ooh, I will say. Extra extra, obviously because the house, yeah. One of the bonuses, like I think people are drawn to that. It’s like, Oh, you have a book.

Like you’re an author. Oh, I want to work with that person. Yeah, no, it definitely shows like that you are that passionate about it. And, and is definitely a great professional tool that I know is going to. Help you in so many ways. So I’m so thrilled. Well, I know we’re recording this prior to it being officially published, but can you go ahead and tell everybody like where they can find it?

Tell us the name of the book again, tell them where to find you on social media and all that stuff. 

Hillary Zama: [00:28:24] Yes, of course. So the book is called spruce up a professional organizers guide for your home, your body and your life. And it will be available on Amazon as a Kindle and also as a paperback on March 29th.

Writing it down. Yes. And I do have some goodies that I’ve been preparing. I have a bonus guide. If people want to grab that, I can share the link with you if you want it for your show notes. But there’s a bonus guide full of Like printables and labels and checklists and tutorials and journal prompts, all that kind of stuff that goes hand in hand with the books.

So I have that all ready to go. And I really only do one form of social media because I don’t love it, but I do love Instagram. So you can find me on Instagram at Hilary Zima. And my website is spruce up There’s also goodies over there. You can check out it is in the middle of reconstruction, the website.

So I’m hoping to have that a little bit updated by the time the book comes out. Awesome. 

Jen Obermeier: [00:29:33] Oh my gosh, Hillary, you, I am, I am honored like seriously, just to have been a part of your business journey, your business story. I mean, the fact that you, you know, as one of my students getting to like, watch you have a goal and then just boom, make it happen.

And that was right after launching your business basically. And I can tell that you have a true passion for this, that is going to help so many people It is a flatter, nothing but a flattering compliment to me that you asked me to write the foreword for your book. So that’s now my claim to fame. I had any relationship.

So with this amazing person and I, and I, and I’m honored, you know, to have been called like a coach and a mentor to you, but I truly believe like you’re taking, you’re taking this and running with it and evolving it in a way that is going to be very special to you and your business. So I just like, I just want to applaud you for that.

And I wanted to share with everybody like, this is this is something that’s really cool for the organizing world, but also just like an example of someone who. Took a goal, broke it down into the steps and then just went and did it, and like, not waiting on somebody to, like you said, give you a permission or like make a book, contract break down on you.

But it’s like all the rewards from this I know are going to just like keep building momentum. So I would just want to ask everybody again, please, like go give Hillary some love, check out her regulations on March 29th, because like boom, professional goals. 

Hillary Zama: [00:31:03] Oh, thank you so much, much, Jen. I just have to say like you were really my first ever business coach and I’m so thankful that I stumbled upon your inspired organizer course, because I can say spruce up would definitely not be what it is today without it, it was hugely helpful. And I’ve just always appreciated like your guidance and your trainings and all the things I’ve learned from you. I’m so grateful. And then you just wrote like the forward of my dreams for my book. I was so happy when I saw the forward. I was like, I started tearing up and I showed my husband, like I was, I was so touched and it means so much pleasure.

Jen Obermeier: [00:31:52] See, I’m not a writer, but I, I really was like, all right, I’m going to try to do her some justice here because this is. Fantastic. So, Oh, it was perfect. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Like I’m already feeling like a year from now. We should do like a check-in podcast, you know, how things have evolved and, and the opportunities I would think even locally, like to have a a local.

You know, press features like, Hey, like we have an author and that’s really, really exciting. So it would be so funny watching, like to see all of the all of the developments along the way, for sure. Over here, your friends at the podcast, but also our bigger audience too. I hope that you guys will stay tuned on how all this.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you. And thank you. We will see you or you’ll hear from us. Next time.

Thank you so much for listening into the pro organizer studio podcast. If you’d like to get our roadmap for success as a pro organizer, head straight to

Thank you so much for listening into the pro organizer studio podcast. If you’d like to get our roadmap for success as a pro organizer, head straight to

If you are looking for business inspiration, we have a brand new free workshop that is called The 4-Part Plan for Landing Your Dream Clients in 2021. Jen Obermeier leads you through that workshop. Sign up for that If you are interested in our Inspired Organizer® program, you can find us at and don’t forget, we have a whole library of podcasts here, our YouTube channel, and  you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Pro Organizer Studio.

Still not sure about starting your own Pro Organizing business? Cick here to read about the 5 things you need to know BEFORE starting your organizing business.

Feeling ready to start? Great! Check out this post on how to start your business stress-free!

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Photos of jen by ANGELA ZION