189 | Single Entrepreneurship: Organizing as a single woman with Michelle Parravani
I am so happy to welcome my guest Michelle Parravani of the Atlanta, GA professional organizing business Designing With Less to the pod--she is talking about entrepreneurship as a single woman which is a super important subject, and I can't wait for you to meet her!
You can listen here, read the full transcript below, or find us on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you love to listen to podcasts!
LINKS FOR LISTENERS
Connect with Michelle: Designing With Less
Connect with Melissa and Pro Organizer Studio: CLICK HERE
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
Hey pro organizers. It's your podcast host, Melissa. And today I am bringing you one of our Inspired Organizer® members, Michelle Parravani, who is in Atlanta by way of the UK.
Michelle sent me an email and she just said, Hey, you always talk about these kinds of people on your podcasts, but I would love for you to talk about. the kind of organizer that I am. And I said, cool, you're coming on the podcast.
I've got a two-parter for you this week. I'm going to put up one part today and then you're going to get another part on Thursday. We are talking about so many things we're talking about being single and being an organizer we were talking about, just organizing philosophies.
The next episode, we're going to talk about some sustainability and organizing there's so much in here, but I think you're going to love Michelle like I love Michelle. She is an awesome member of our Inspired Organizer® community, and so I am just going to let her tell her story. Thanks for being here today.
I hope you're having a great week, organizers!
MICHELLE PARRAVANI OF DESIGNING WITH LESS
Melissa Klug: My guest on the podcast today. is here, I don't want to say under duress because you came happily, but you sent me an email and you're like, Hey, you should talk about this sometime on the podcast.
And I was like, cool, you're going to come on the podcast and talk about it. So it's so nice to meet you. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Organizing business, and then we'll get into it. Yes. Yes.
Michelle Parravanni: I am excited to be here. It is a little bit under duress because I was kind of me.
I don't know if I can do this, but I put my big old pants
Melissa Klug: on. I love it. I appreciate it. It's good to do things that are scary. That's excellent.
Michelle Parravanni: Yep. I said that to myself. I'm like, this is personal growth. I can do this. I'm going to do it and I'm not going to back out five minutes beforehand. I am going
Melissa Klug: to do this.
I'm definitely not going to fake like I'm sick today and say that I can't join. Oh, it did cross my mind. Okay. Well, you're here and you're shiny and you're happy and you're smiling. So
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah, I'm here. I'm going to kill my dog, but I'm here.
Melissa Klug: It's fine. . So this is real life. I always say this podcast is real life and dogs are often a part of real life, so it's not a
Michelle Parravanni: problem.
Well, I got a dog in there, a dog over there, and two cats, so you're gonna see one at some point, so, you know. No problem. Totally fine. It's my life. , but so yeah, so am in, Atlanta by way of the UK I was gonna
Melissa Klug: say, your voice does not sound like Atlanta, if I may say that.
Michelle Parravanni: Yes. People like to guess where I'm from and almost all the time get it wrong, but Okay.
Yeah, I'm here. Apparently, I have a twang now, so. Oh,
Melissa Klug: fantastic. It's like British Southern. Yes. Yes. Interesting. Okay.
Michelle Parravanni: I almost disown me because I'm, I have a twang when I talk, so, you know. Oh, that's really funny. And I don't have correct grammar anymore. You know, can I get? It's a big issue.
Melissa Klug: Interesting. Okay. Yeah. We should probably explore a little bit more of that, but anyway, continue. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Michelle Parravanni: So, so yeah, so I started organizing business in 2019. I thought that I had this amazing, brilliant idea that nobody else had ever thought of until a friend of mine said, so have you heard of the home edit?
And I was like, yeah. I don't want to go, no, is that I thought I had this idea. I thought this was not mine. So I have always kind of worked in house management. I worked with the same family for a really long time I was there for about 20 years and it came, was coming, yeah, it was coming to an end.
So that's a
Melissa Klug: long time, a long time.
Michelle Parravanni: But I learned a lot along the way, and I decided that I wanted to start something of my own. I didn't really want to work for anybody else. You know, I don't want to be micromanaged, I don't want to have a quote unquote boss anymore, I want to do my own thing. But I also I have never been a millionaire, never had tons of money, so I needed to think of something that had a low overhead that I was good at, which is why I came up with the whole organizing concept and, started doing a little bit of research on it.
That's when I found Jen. Yeah, so that was in the very beginning and she, I remember it so clearly. I was sitting in my living room trying to like, find people like me, see if this was a thing, see if it's something I could do. Jen had just put out her first podcast, I think, and she was literally reading from a piece of paper and go with bullet points.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. Right. Like the 50, 50 ways to start your business for a thousand dollars. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Parravanni: It spoke to me because it was right where I was in my life is what I needed to hear at that time. I can do this. I can do this. There's no overhead. Well, I say, no, there's very low overhead. The thought about it some more, I decided just to bite the bullet and do it.
Sitting at the dog park one day, met another lady from England, and we're both at kind of a crossroads in our lives. I'm like, I'm thinking about starting this organizing business. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it. And she was also at a point where her kid was going off to, you know, middle school and didn't really need her as much anymore.
Yeah, she was kind of working a part time job. But you know, after chatting for a little bit, we decided to do it together. So it would be my business. I own it and she'd come on as an independent contractor. And that was how it got started. And we just decided like fast friends had met, known each other about a month and went into this together, just hit it off.
And then yeah, the rest is history, but I say that it was the beginning of
Melissa Klug: COVID. Of course it was so many people started organizing businesses in like February of 2020.
Michelle Parravanni: Exactly. We were 2019. So we would just get enough, just get going, kind of finding our way. And then had a few clients, you know, it was very sporadic.
It was the beginning. So, you know, you're trying to feel it. You're trying to see how to network, see how to market. Everything is brand new. I don't know anything about running a business at this point.
Melissa Klug: It takes a while to get it going. And that's a hard thing for people. You want it to be immediate and it isn't.
But, and you look
Michelle Parravanni: back and you just say the things I didn't know,
Melissa Klug: correct.
Michelle Parravanni: I had no idea. I have no idea. These things I had to do with the how to charge, how to build it. I did an LLC in the beginning, not realizing you have to pay self employment taxes on that.
Melissa Klug: You sure do. Yes.
Michelle Parravanni: Letting out the hard way. So, you know, it's all trial and error, but we've been in business. What? Five years now and have gone from that to work in, we do a four day week, so Monday
Melissa Klug: marketing. And you still are with the partner, like the woman that you met. So it's the two of you together. Two of us together.
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah. Now I do take on some jobs by myself. So, you know, if there are people come up, like yesterday, I had a lady that she just moved into a condo and she's got this guest room packed with boxes and it's just so overwhelming for her. And it was a one on one job. She needed coaching. She didn't want to be overwhelmed by too many people moving fast.
It wasn't for a team. It was just for me and her. So I do have a few clients where it's just me. But my partner Saffron, she doesn't. Like to do that. She likes to work with me as a team. So I take on those jobs and then the other ones we do together. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: Okay. So you have a partner, but it's like, it's a little bit of a team, but a little bit on your own.
You have a little bit of a hybrid going on.
Michelle Parravanni: Yes. And I love it. And she does too. That's great. Yeah. Because it gives her flexibility to be at home with her daughter and her husband where I'm single. So I mean, I have a family, but it's, I don't have those responsibilities. So I have that I can go, even if I want to go on a Saturday morning, I can do that.
You know, which is why I love opening a business because you get to call those shots.
Melissa Klug: You do. You get to do whatever you want to, which for some people is very difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Was there anything that you had to adjust to? Like when you first started your business that you're like, wow, I wasn't prepared for this part of entrepreneurship.
Yes.
Michelle Parravanni: Just how non consistent, you know, the clients, they're not consistent. So when you start your business, you have this idea and you think, Oh yeah, I'll be at this place in a year and I'll have all these clients and I'll be able to give up this job. And Oh, now I had to work two jobs. Yeah. In order to build this company.
So I'm working, still working with the family that I was with and then another friend of mine, she had started a business where it's like a a home assistant kind of business. So it's also flexible hours. So she would fit me in there as well. So while we're building a client base, I'm working two other jobs to support myself, to build the clients because I don't have a husband or a partner or somebody financially or emotionally, really.
To yeah, to kind of help me along the way and guide me or support me while I'm building. So I had to work two other jobs to get us to another place. That took a good, especially in COVID, that took a good year, if not more, before I could kind of downsize that. And then but I tell you it's funny because I hear you talk about this a lot.
You spend a lot of time trying to find these clients and you're like, where are they coming from? Now we've tried up. They're coming, they're going, there's no consistency here. Then you get into doing the newsletters and the blogs, and you've done those for about six months, and all of a sudden, boom, they just come.
Melissa Klug: It happens and I've seen it happen so many times and people who are in a valley don't believe me when I tell them I swear there will be a day like there's a start of your business and you're so excited about it. And then you're like, wait a minute, it takes, I need to learn how to build a business.
And then you start doing the things that we teach you to build a business and you're like, okay, where is it? And there is just this one magical day. where all of the pieces come together and it's like you can almost imagine a cartoon where like all the spokes and the wheel come together and then the wheel starts spinning right and but it's hard to wait and be patient but it does happen.
And that's what
Michelle Parravanni: you always tell us. Be patient. It takes a while for Google to pick up on these things. It does. You can't write a blog post and expect the next day to, you know, clients are just going to come flowing. You know, I think sometimes you run into that with websites. You think you published a website and it's like, Oh, where are they?
Yeah, I have to do more
Melissa Klug: work. Yes. Well, and that's, that is a legitimate part of entrepreneurship that a lot of people aren't aware of. Prepared for necessarily. And I think being honest about, Hey, you know, it's going to take me a while to build this. The example I use all the time is Amazon started out just selling books and they sold them at a loss for many years.
I think they might still be selling at a loss, but like you have to start out a big thing. With the tiniest things and it's building blocks. That's all it is.
Michelle Parravanni: Yes. Yes, exactly. And I think it's all in the way you look at it as well. Like you can't be negative and so down on yourself and looking at Instagram and Facebook and especially in Atlanta, because there's such a high level of competition.
Yeah. Well, no, I don't mean competition, but just other organizers out there. It is
Melissa Klug: competition. We like to talk about it a little, you know, like we, we talk in our group as we always say collaboration over competition, but at the end of the day, we do run businesses and there are competing businesses.
There are people in our same area doing our same thing. That is competition.
Michelle Parravanni: It's true. It's true. I actually stopped following any of the other organizers. Cause it's bad for my health. Yeah, it's so bad for my mental health. I took them, I take anybody off that was in my gear. I
Melissa Klug: was like, that is so smart.
And I would really encourage other people to do that. I think if I could pick one thing that I could just wave a magic wand and fix. In organizers, just the lovely people that I work with the comparison itis that we get from social media, even if you just unfollow the people in your area or just mute them, you don't even have to unfollow them, just mute them.
You do not have to see them because when you see people in your area, then you start inflating stories about what they're doing, which you don't actually know. I just got off the call with someone who's like, well, I see all these people who are doing all these things. And I'm like, you don't know any details about the things, you know, a 30 second snippet.
You don't know. So. No,
Michelle Parravanni: you really don't. And I fell into that and I felt myself, this is really, this is not good for me. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, I follow other organizers outside of this area because, you know, I like that and I like networking with them and seeing what they're doing because they're not an immediate threat.
Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. But anybody local? No.
Melissa Klug: And everybody needs to do what works for them, and if you know yourself, I think the most important thing is you know yourself, and you go, this is not good for me, it's not good for my mental health, it's not good for my mindset, it's not good for any of these things, therefore, I, you know, there's no like, Instagram police that is gonna be like, you're not following all the other organizers in your area, why is that?
It's really okay. It is
Michelle Parravanni: okay. It is okay. Yeah, we have to be okay with it being okay.
Melissa Klug: Yes, absolutely. So the original thing that you emailed me about, I, you sort of touched on it and I want to talk about it. So one of the things that I appreciate is when someone comes in and is like, Hey, you talk about blah, blah, blah, a lot on the podcast, but I haven't heard you talk about.
This and you are talking about something that I think is really important because we are not one size fits all. And we want to talk about organizing as a single person. So you are a single person entrepreneur not having the quote unquote traditional support system, which a ton of people don't.
We have hundreds of organizers and inspired organizer, all of whom have a very different story. So tell me a little bit about starting an entrepreneurial journey. for just not having maybe some of those again, traditional safety nets.
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah. I mean, well, like I was talking about before, it's hard because you do have to work other jobs because the reality is you have to support yourself and everything's very expensive at the moment.
It sure
Melissa Klug: is. And it's things like insurance. Insurance is really important. Yes.
Michelle Parravanni: Taxes have gone up. Insurance is expensive. everything is expensive. So yeah, well, like I touched on before it, it was a matter of working a couple jobs and trying to stay sane and trying and just focusing on getting clients and networking with people that are like you.
So you always hear the stories of you know, moms, single moms, moms. Married women, people that came from already an entrepreneurial background, or they've already made a lot of money and have a lot of money in the bank. You know, there's all these different journeys and I love every single one of them.
So I would just always think, and that comes back actually to my accountability partner that you set me up with. Yes. I'm a matchmaker.
Melissa Klug: I set people up with accountability partners and sometimes it works out just like a marriage.
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah, she's amazing. And she's just like me. We have, we are the same.
She's, yeah, she's single. She comes from a similar kind of background. She keeps me accountable. And you can have done a better job at that, really. Oh, well, thanks. I don't know how you did that, but you nailed it. Cause she's awesome. And we text all the time. We talk all the time. So if you're listening that's in IO and is thinking about getting accountability plan and do it.
Cause it's, it really keeps you on your toes. Cause we've come up with some very creative ways to keep each other accountable.
Melissa Klug: I love it. And that's important because I do think that when you. And by the way, I don't care what your family situation is, if you have great support, or if you're single, or if you're a single mom, it doesn't matter, having someone in organizing that knows what you're going through, you can have the most supportive support system of extended family, right?
Dogs, cats, anything you want. I'm sure your dog is very supportive, by the way. But you can tell, you
Michelle Parravanni: can hear it. Yes. He's
Melissa Klug: very excited about this podcast, but having someone who is an organizer and is an entrepreneur is a next level of being, because it's hard to explain sometimes like, Hey, this is what happened to me today.
And having someone that just gets it. Yes. So important.
Michelle Parravanni: Well, it is because like we were talking about before with social media, you see everything and everything is perfect. Yeah. Right. All the clients are perfect. All the jobs are perfect. They all end up without a thing out of place, you know, you know, after you've taken those videos, you've taken something and popped it right back in the middle.
It
Melissa Klug: lasts 10 seconds that
Michelle Parravanni: way. That last 10 seconds. Or you're saying, Oh, take that out for the video. I'll take that out for the picture. Cause you know, we can't show that. 100% Yes, and when I talk to Bridget we get to talk about the real life side of it, the finances, the taxes the not so easy clients, you know, we, our struggles, you know, basically, and it is like having an organizing husband or wife.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. You have an organizing spouse. I always refer to it as, when I started my journey to be a KonMari consultant, you know, to be certified by Marie Kondo. I had a KonMari bestie and we were like, you know, we were working through our certification together and, you know, we did a lot of other things together too.
And just having that person who gets it immediately. And then also when you have that next level of here's my life situation. And by the way, Every life situation that someone is in is difficult and challenging in its own way. Being a single woman is challenging in one way. And then being a single mom is challenging in a way.
And then being a married mom with small kids, like a mom with small kids has a very different life than I have with older kids. Like it's just finding someone that is in your same stage of life and business is chef's kiss. And I'm happy about that.
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah. And I think just being an entrepreneur and being on an entrepreneurial journey can get lonely at sometimes, you know, you can get pretty lonely doing it and trying to figure it out and you can get down and want to give it up.
Yeah. Why am I doing this? You know, so you always do need to have someone in your corner that really gets it and understands it. And like you said, husband, they might not even care, or they think what you're doing is crazy. Like who needs that?
Melissa Klug: And that's actually a really great point because not every person that has a partner has a supportive partner, exactly.
And so there are benefits to being able to say I'm single and I get to make all of these choices on my own as to what works. For me and just me, like in some ways you have an added benefit of like, I can do this and I have the flexibility to do this the way that I want to, which is lovely.
Michelle Parravanni: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, just like anything, it balances the other way as well. I mean, there's so many, there's so many pros you, you are making your own money. You are finding clients, you are supporting yourself. You are growing and networking and like, I've done things I never thought I would do. I'm not, I.
have bad anxiety, I have panic disorder, I have all those things, you have to kind of turn that off and do the networking and just even if you've got to pretend to be someone else. You know, even if you give yourself another name and play a completely different character, which is what I've done. I started going to the BNI groups, which was another thing that Bridget and I were talking about because she has gotten a lot of clients from that.
So I found my chapter and I went and I'm not the kind of person that really wants to get up and speak. And I didn't know that I had to, I thought I was just sitting back and watching everybody and just seeing how it worked. I didn't know they called on me to talk about it. There's the panic, but I got up and I did it and I told everybody and I was confident and I played this role of a really confident woman, which I am not.
And it was great and I loved it. And it was such a self achievement to be able to do that. The things you don't think you can do or that you've lied to yourself about, you tell yourself you can't do it, but you can. You get up there and you do it and you meet people and then who knows where that leads.
Melissa Klug: There are a lot of things that I think people don't give themselves credit that they are capable of doing. You might not love it. It might not be, you know, you might not say, I suddenly now want to become a public speaker full time. But these things are a lot less scary than we think they are.
Yeah. And also a lot of the other people that are doing them are just as scared as we are.
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah. Yeah. But they're necessary things to do to grow. Yes. And to grow in your business, they're necessary because you get to a point sometimes where you dry up a little bit and the clients aren't coming in like they were.
And then you have to get creative and you have to think about things that you need to do in order to get those clients back. Right. So let's network. Let's get out there. Let's do it. Go on Eventbrite and see what's coming up and you know, put yourself out there and it's not easy, but it's
Melissa Klug: necessary. It's not easy, but I will also say, I've never had a job that people want to talk about more than organizing. Once you go out there and by the way, if you're at a BNI group or something, you're probably going to get a few, you get paid for that. You know, you're going to get a little bit of that, right?
But when you are talking to people, Who are genuinely interested, they could talk about organizing for hours, and letting more people know that and talking about that more in a casual setting, not trying to drum up business, not trying that is good for all of us. Yeah, it's
Michelle Parravanni: nice and it's nice because you are the only one in your category there, like there's no other organisers there.
You, you get to, you know, really hone in on your business and talk about that and a network. I chose a chapter that had an interior designer that had a real estate agent that had all the things that can help me in my business. And I can help them obviously in return. Yeah. So you just have to be intentional about what you're doing and work
Melissa Klug: smart in it, I think.
I love that you have stretched, you know, what you feel good doing and you've learned, Oh, it's not that bad. Like coming on this podcast. It's not that bad. It's
Michelle Parravanni: not that bad. Yeah. Cause I can. Talk about organizing all day long.
Melissa Klug: It's what you do. Yeah. Yeah. What are your favorite kinds of clients to serve?
Michelle Parravanni: I, just anybody that is overwhelmed in their life. Okay. Okay. So we've had clients that have run the gamut. And I think over the years you figure out What you love and what you don't love. I love the people that really need you. And that have so much gratitude when you're done. As opposed to the people that don't really need you.
That have tons of money and it's just a job that needs to get done. Does that make sense?
Melissa Klug: A hundred percent. Because those are my people too. And I love that there are people that do all different kinds. But I love leaving a house and getting a hug. It's great. Oh,
Michelle Parravanni: me too. Me too. Oh, I love it so much. Because for me, it's the personal aspect.
I like connecting with people. I don't want to go in and just do a job. I want to go in and have an effect and change, make their life easier. Bring them a little bit of joy, a little bit of peace, you know, whatever I can do for them. So, yeah, so those are my favorite clients. I have one too right now.
There's ongoing. So one lives in a tiny apartment, but is totally overwhelmed by all of her stuff. And we've just been doing a little piece at time for as much as she can manage until we get it all done. Now, every. Every time I'm set to go back, I know two days ahead of time I'm going to get a text. She's got COVID.
She's, the AC is out. But every time, and I'm always like, don't worry about me. I can put a mask on. Don't worry about me. I work outside in a garage. In Atlanta, in the hot sun, in 95 degrees, like don't worry about me. And then she comes back and she's like, Oh okay. I'm really looking forward to having you back.
Cause I know she needs me. I know she needs it. I
Melissa Klug: love plowing through those objections. Like when you have someone, when you've worked with them long enough that you're like, I know your BS, I know it. I recognize it from 10 miles away and here's my way around it. And you're like, no, I'm not going to give you the easy out.
Michelle Parravanni: Exactly. It's like you've had COVID 10 times. I
Melissa Klug: was going to say you've had COVID times than anyone in the entire United States. Exactly.
Michelle Parravanni: And it's funny. I could predict that you were going to get it again. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: Right. Yeah. Interesting. Do you feel like you have the sniffles coming on again? Interesting.
I'm coming in two days. I'm not shocked by this. Yeah.
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah. Don't worry about me. I've done it. I'm fine. I won't get sick. Yeah. Every time. But yeah, that's it. It's personal connections for me all day, every day. Yeah, even on emails when somebody sends a submission form through, I don't have automated emails.
I make sure that I email them back. I don't do anything automated. I like to have that personal connection with someone so that they know they're reaching a real human being that does actually care about them and what they need. Yeah, and like I said, having your own business, you get to make the rules.
So, if there's somebody that can't quite afford your services and you want to take it down ten bucks, take it down ten bucks if they really need you. You know? I love that.
Melissa Klug: I absolutely love that. It is very freeing to be able to say, and again, sometimes people find this, find the freedom to be a little challenging.
I love the freedom to be able to say, you know what? I'd be happy to do this for 60 an hour instead of 100 an hour. I love being able to say, you know what? I don't typically work on a Saturday, but this is important and I'll do it. And I'm equally able to say, sorry, I don't work on Saturday. And just Stick with that.
Michelle Parravanni: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So we also pride ourselves on being sustainable. So we do everything we can to keep items out of the landfill. Okay. I've got connections all over the place. So if somebody gives me textiles, there's a place called scrap land, so I can take wool. I can take textiles.
So I like spend my days going around all these different places to keep everything I can from going to the landfill. Cool. Now, there are certain people that will have, like, old cupboards and shelves and they'll have them in their garage and say to me, oh, it's okay, I'll take them to Habitat for Humanity tomorrow.
It's okay, don't worry about that. Yeah. And I'm like, no, you won't. No, you won't. No. So I'll go back on a Saturday, I'll pick them up and I'll take them there. Just because I can, and I'm not going to charge for it, because I would just rather that goes to the right place, that it sit in your garage for another year.
You know, and you're not doing anything about it. So I love that I have those options and if I want to do it, I can, but my, but the lady that I do it with is totally the opposite. When she's done her weekend is weekend. And that is fine. That is totally fine with me. She goes have, so we has her weekend and I'll go just putz about and take things where they need to go.
You know, well.
Melissa Klug: And I, there are times that I'll, you know, make a reel or, you know, I'll do something for Pro Organizer Studio. And I will think to myself, I'm sure there are people that are watching this that would like, I would never do that with my organizing business in a thousand years. Totally cool.
You don't have to do it the way I do it or the way you do it. I'm a little bit more like you. I'll be like, Oh, I can take that to electronics recycling for you. But I also really applaud the people that have the boundaries that are like, Nope, when my day's over, my day's over that it's, again, it's 100 percent what fills your cup.
And for me, it's important to me to be of service to people sometimes to my own detriment, but yeah, but that feels good to me and I'm okay doing that until I start to resent it. And when I start to resent it, then it's a me problem.
Michelle Parravanni: Definitely. And I can say no. And I'm quite happy to say no.
There are clients where it's, I know they're just taking advantage and I'd be like, no, I'm not, yeah, I'm not going to do that. And then there's other clients where I know this will mean something to them and I'm happy to do it. But if I'm not happy to do it, I won't. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. There's definitely a boundary there.
Yeah. But again, lifestyle, I'm single. It'll have responsibilities. I don't have kids to take care of. I'm not going to soccer on a Saturday morning. If I want to go do that because I have the time to do it, I'll go do it and be perfectly happy doing it for someone.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. Yeah. You're choosing to spend your time doing things.
Other people might be spending their time doing different things. You're choosing to spend your time a little bit more on your business and that's okay with you and you still have. a full nice life outside of that.
Michelle Parravanni: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm not I also do things on my own time. So I know some people will structure it Saturday, Sunday, no work.
I'm not like that. If I'm sitting down. Maybe watching the TV and there's something I can do on my computer, so I'm in the mood to do it, then I'll do it. But I don't structure myself, but other people need that. But I don't need it. Sometimes I'll come home and say, I'm totally tired. I'm not doing anything.
And I won't do anything. And that works. And that's healthy for me. But those are the best days. Completely different. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. So one thing that I remember running into, I'm just interested if this happens to you, I have two different things. So one thing back in my old corporate life, before I was married and had kids, there was definitely and this always really insulted me.
People would be like, Well, you don't have anything going on. So you can spend time on this. And I'm like, am I not allowed to have a life just because I don't have to take kids to soccer? Like you said, like, no, I'm also allowed to have a life. Do you have anyone that tries to, to like, do that to you?
Yeah. All the time. Okay. That's annoying to me. It's very
Michelle Parravanni: annoying. Yes, it's very annoying. I have had people, well, you've got nothing to do so you can do it. And I'm like, but I have hobbies and I have things I like to do, and I've got pets and I've gotten, but then I don't have to explain that to you either, so No,
Melissa Klug: no, you don't.
Michelle Parravanni: No. Yeah. I don't actually
Melissa Klug: owe you anything. No, I, but I hate that.
Michelle Parravanni: I hate it too. But then if we just wanna sit on the couch for eight hours, is it your
Melissa Klug: business? It's not. No, it's not. Also, that's the luxury of the life that you've chosen too, because you know, there, you have chosen a life that gives you a lot of freedom and that freedom can include just watching The Traitors peacock or whatever.
Michelle Parravanni: Exactly. Watching some junk TV for eight hours. That's totally fine. I can do that if I want to. Yeah. It's about them, isn't it? When they say things like that, it's
Melissa Klug: about them. Yes. A hundred percent.
So, what do you see as your progression in your business? So like, do you see being happy kind of with what you're doing kind of status quo or
Michelle Parravanni: I actually would like to niche, like everybody else.
I love closets. I love doing closets. I love making overwhelmed, stressed women
Melissa Klug: happy. Love that.
Michelle Parravanni: That's what I love. So the amount of closets that we've done, where we've gone in, decluttered everything, and made it beautiful for them, and they walk in and cry. Because it's the one thing that's actually for them.
Because they're so used to giving, giving, and their stuff always comes last. And when you go in, even though they're paying you to do it, it means so much to them. Especially if you put a little magic touch on there. We had a client a few weeks back that had sand from beaches that she'd gone to, and she had her books, and there was an extra shelf, so Saffron styled it, lovely, she, I don't know how she does bookcase styling, but she does it, I cannot, but she's incredible.
She made it gorgeous and it was so personalized that a client walks in and just bursts into tears And she said it's the first time someone's done something for me Yeah, and and I love that so that got me to thinking i'd like to create a service Where there can be add ons? And we, you can pick outfits, you can shop your own closet, pick out some outfits, we can take some pictures so you can go in and get dressed easily in the morning, we can get a nice rug, have your coffee machine in here, whatever you want, we can just manipulate your closet just for you, you know.
So I'd like to do something like that and I'm starting to partner with some different closet companies. Around here. We've done a lot of Elfa systems. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a lady that's also local and she installs closets and we're going to partner together so we can make a big service. Yeah. And try to cater to overwhelm stress women just to make mornings easier, really just to go in and instead of looking at your closet and being, I don't know what to wear and just starting the morning angry and frustrated, just go in there and exhale in a great way.
Melissa Klug: I know exactly what I have
Michelle Parravanni: and exactly what I have. This is the place I go for little peace. My kids are downstairs. It's my closet. You can't come in. This is my little sanctuary and I'm going to start the day in a nice happy way instead of being frustrated.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. And I think that's where the magic is it does not matter whether you are single, married, divorced kids, no kids, women are having a hard time.
It's, it is hard to be a woman even in 2024. And I think that being able to offer. No matter where you are in life to be able to offer women that relief, I think is one of the most important things that organizers do. Yeah,
Michelle Parravanni: absolutely. Because women are just wearing all the hats, all of the hats because it didn't used to be like that, you know, and that's why I always tell people it's okay to outsource.
It's, you don't have to do it all. Outsourcing somebody to come in and do your laundry and your dishes so that when you come home, you don't have to think about that. And you can be with your kids is a great thing. You shouldn't feel bad having to do that or paying someone to come in and organizing your closet once every six months do it.
It makes you feel good and that's one less thing to think about.
Melissa Klug: One less thing. I know organizers who feel guilty. That they have house cleaners or that they do a meal delivery service and I'm like, well, but we sell our services to people who also are sometimes made to feel guilty about hiring us.
And so why would we feel guilty about that for ourselves? Exactly. We shouldn't.
Michelle Parravanni: Definitely. No. And also you can look at it in the way is supporting small business. Yes. Yes. Your local small business. Just think about it in that way. They've got a business just like yours and you're supporting that.
Melissa Klug: So yeah. Yeah. This is a total side story. I got really annoyed at my parents one time because they were like Oh, your dad's gonna paint the house. I go, That's the worst idea I've ever heard. And I was like, Also, why would you not support? They live in a small town. I go, Why would you not support? a local small business, such as the one that your daughter runs.
Like I rely on people to support my business. You could really be supporting a small business person and also not having my older father fall off a ladder. Like this is very simple. Just hire someone. Just hire someone. It's
Michelle Parravanni: totally fine. I don't know why we get so crazy about it. Someone that support local business.
Yes. Don't feel bad
Melissa Klug: about it. Yeah. Don't just don't feel bad about it. The other thing that I think about and that has, I have had people talk to me about this before is kind of specifically around I am not a mom. I don't have kids.
Therefore, my client, you know, like my ideal client shouldn't really be a mom with kids because I don't know what that is like. I think that's, as I think some Brits would say, poppycock, but yeah, tell me a little more about your thoughts on that as a single woman.
Michelle Parravanni: Oh, I think you're limiting yourself. Yeah.
If you, yes, if you have tunnel vision over something like that, you're limiting who you meet, you're limiting who you're serving, you're not growing and learning. Because go take one of those clients on, and you'll see how amazing it is and what you're doing for them. Just branch out and think outside of the box.
If you think you're only serving one type of client, then, like I said, you're limiting your accessibility to all those other people. And all those people need you just as much. I love working with people with kids. All of them. I'll take anybody that, that is overwhelmed.
Melissa Klug: And just because you do not have a specific life experience does not mean that you do not have a tremendous amount of knowledge you can bring to that situation.
I just think there's a special, there's like this idea that we have or that some people have expressed of like, well, I can't know what that life experience is like, so how can I really organize for them? And I, the example I've always used is one of my favorite clients is like a 79 year old elderly retired lawyer.
And I'm like, well, I don't know what his life experience is like. I don't know what it's like to be a 79 year old man. I help him all the time. It's great. Like, and I would argue sometimes people that aren't moms probably have the best ideas of how to organize stuff versus those of us who are like, Oh, I remember when my kids were this age.
Now that was 19 years ago. So I just, I wanted to talk about that because I've heard it enough times that I know it's out there. If I've heard it this many times, I know then it's out there. And I just don't want people, like you said, to limit themselves on who you should be serving.
Michelle Parravanni: Yeah, and ultimately everybody is looking for the same thing.
They just need help because they're overwhelmed. They just need, they want you to come in with a fresh set of eyes and look at it in a way they haven't looked at it before and come up with different ideas. You could say the most simplest thing. You always talk about the the shelves in the kitchen.
Yes. And you can adjust them and people will say, Oh, I didn't know you could do that. Nobody
Melissa Klug: knows that.
Michelle Parravanni: Nobody knows that. Even though they are the bane of my existence, because trying to get those pins out of something, the
Melissa Klug: plastic. Oh, they're terrible to be clear. It's terrible. And I cry when I have to do it, but it is also something that I go, we can move these shelves.
We're just going to do it.
Michelle Parravanni: We're just going to do it. Oh we fight about this all the time because I always get that job. Because she gets her nails done and I don't. So I always get the job of doing the shelves. So every time we have to do it, I find myself doing, having to do a whole kitchen of shelves.
Melissa Klug: Here's what I want to say as someone with nails. You need to tell her she needs to do them because mine are, these are like rock solid. These actually help me in my organizing job because I can push those little things in and get those shelves out. So you need to tell your partner she's got to get on their shelves.
You got to be equal opportunity on their shelves.
Michelle Parravanni: Absolutely. But she won't listen. It's a good excuse for her. I got it. She, I got to let her have that one.
PART TWO OF MY CONVERSATION WITH MICHELLE WILL BE PODCAST 190 SO CLICK HERE FOR ALL THE GOODNESS!
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