197 | I Flew 5,963 Miles For Some Life-Changing Magic For My Pro Organizing Business
me (r) with my wonderful friends Kristin DeCou (Modern Refresh) and Helen Youn (Spark Joy With Helen)
When I signed up for a trip to Japan with Marie Kondo's team from KonMari Media, I figured I would get some good sightseeing, some good food, and get to meet other organizers and have some good pictures for social media. What I didn't expect was to have a truly life-changing experience that has made me look differently at my business and my personal journeys--and my guest Kristin DeCou from Modern Refresh is here to talk with me about our amazing trip across Japan!
You can listen here, read the full transcript below, or find us on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you love to listen to podcasts!
LINKS FOR LISTENERS
Connect with Kristin of Modern Refresh: www.modernrefresh.com or www.instagram.com/modernrefresh
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
Hey pro organizers! It's your podcast host, Melissa, and I have been here on this podcast talking to you now for almost four years, which is kind of crazy to me that four years has gone really quickly. But my journey to talking to you and to spending time with you and helping you build your business and building my own organizing business started inside my own house.
If you're watching me on YouTube, it started in the walls of this house and it started when my house was a total chaotic disastrous mess. And I discovered The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up, a book by Marie Kondo. And I radically transformed my personal life. I said goodbye to about 60% of the things that I owned. And changed my relationship with my house.
And then I also realized that my true path in life was to be able to help other people feel like I did in my house. And then that path led me to this wonderful community of people at Pro Organizer Studio across the globe. I'm so grateful that I get to do this work every day. But it all started because of Marie Kondo. And.
I was wildly fortunate to be able to share my story of organizing and being an organizing entrepreneur with Marie herself. On a recent trip that I took to Japan. And this trip, when I tell you a so Marie's book is called the life-changing magic of tidying up. This trip was the life-changing magic of Melissa going to Japan because it has really turned upside down for me, a lot of the things in my business and my life.
And so what I wanted to do is bring one of my friends who also experienced the trip with me onto this podcast. What I'm going to reassure you is it is not one of those situations where I'm like, let me tell you all about my vacation and let me show you all my pictures. This is not that it is not going to be a, here are the, all the places we went, but
one of my jobs here at Pro Organizer Studio is to take things that I have learned in my own entrepreneurship and give you those things and hope that they will help you on your journey as well. And I can tell you is that Kristin and I, and all of the people that are on this trip. Um, had really amazing experiences that are going to impact. How we approach organizing how we approach entrepreneurship and how we want to make changes in our life.
And I really felt compelled that I wanted to share that with you. Not in a look at all my vacation pictures way, but in a. Hey, these are some things that have caused us to take a stop. And to really reevaluate, um, a lot of things in our lives. So I really hope that it is helpful for you.
I can say that unequivocally, this trip has been extremely transformational to me. And I hope that you will be able to see some of that transformation in the work that I do here at pro organizer studio. But until then, I would like to give you some inspiration in your own organizing businesses.
I am absolutely happy to introduce you to my friend, Kristin DeCou of Modern Refresh in the great state of Washington. To any of my friends from the trip who are listening, konnichiwa. And to all of you who are listening. Arigato gozaimasu for being a part of my Pro Organizer Studio life. Of my entrepreneurial journey, and I hope that this helps you. Have a wonderful day organizers.
Melissa Klug: We just spent some quality time together. I mean, like many, many days of quality time. And she's still speaking to me, which is great news. So Kristin, welcome to the podcast.
Kristin DeCou: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Melissa Klug: We were emailing and you said, Hey, I have an idea for the podcast. I think that you should talk about our Japan trip and all the things that I'm like, great. How about you come on and talk about it?
That's what we're doing today. You talked yourself into some extra work. So thank you. You're welcome. Amazing. Well, can you give us, before we get started can you just give us a little history of you and what you do, because you do a lot of things.
Kristin DeCou: Yeah. So in, let's see, 2013, bringing it all the way back, I read Marie Kondo's book, The LIfe Changing Magic of Tidying Up. And I've always been someone that loves order and organization. I was pregnant with my second child Kalea and decided I wanted to pursue that path of starting my own organizing business.
And so I took the KonMari consultant course in 2018. I had, I finished just before I had my daughter that summer. And since then I've been organizing part time and I have two kids. And then. Two years ago, I also joined KonMari as a certification coach and now also work as a certification program manager, which basically means that I do very similar to what you do, is just coaching, guiding new organizers to be motivated, to have the resources they need, to be set up for success, and then to be able to have that space to ask questions.
If they're unsure of what to do with a client or how to approach a situation or What would Marie do that kind of thing? So I've really been enjoying that. I love working one on one with people and I have enjoyed being a part of this joy centered work.
Melissa Klug: For people who don't know I am a certified KonMari consultant.
That was how I started my organizing path in 2018 also. There is a. course that you go through, and then you go through a full certification process. And the certification process is, it's not just you pass the course and you get a certificate, right?
Like you show up for three days and you are certified. There is a lot of good client work you have to do before you are certified. And it's one of my favorite things about my organizing journey is I got to work with all these practice clients and really learn how to hone my organizing skills.
And then I had someone like you, giving feedback and providing me with like, Hey, did you think about this? Did you try this? That type of thing.
And tell us a little bit about your organizing business. So you do it part time, where are you?
Kristin DeCou: I am based in Port Angeles, Washington, and we moved here during COVID. I was based in Los Angeles where I was working three to five days a week. And that felt really good to me. And I felt like I was in the sweet spot where in February, 2020, I said, I am like a 10 on where I want to be with work, and then March 2020 happened, and then I felt like things just kind of fell away, and I started thinking, okay, what can I do?
So I did, I did write for some local publications where we lived in Los Angeles about organizing and how to, Stay organized at home. And then we moved here, which is where my husband's from. And it's been a lot of rebuilding. And I think being in a small town, it's a lot of word of mouth and that can take time when you're new.
And it's also a lot of Facebook, which I think coming from maybe being a lot more active on Instagram was a little bit different. And then just having a completely different clientele where in Los Angeles, people have more. Maybe money than time. And in a small town, people have more time than money.
And so really reconfiguring what is a service offering look like? How often do I want to work? And so now I'm in a space where, because I work part time for KonMari, I also, I work with a client one to two days a week, and that feels like an ideal. And so really refining success has been a game changer in feeling.
Good. And feeling joy in my business rooted here.
Melissa Klug: I love that you said that because we do have people that move from place to place and they take their organizing business with them. And it is hard because you're essentially you're restarting for the second time, right? Like when you start a business, you do so much work, you build up your clientele, you build up all those referrals.
Build your website and all of the things, and then you're like, Hey, I'm going to move and you move to a totally different place. I've seen that a lot, people moving from a very big metropolis to a smaller town. And I love what you're saying about how you have to really rethink your, your business and rethink the way you go to market and the people that you serve and all of those things.
Kristin DeCou: I mean, even just coming from a position where some people have never heard of a professional organizer and other people maybe have a very loose, Connection to even what someone would be. You'd hire someone for cleaning. And so really it's redefining that and then being able to be yourself and put yourself out there.
And I think just be more involved in the community in real life versus just a community online.
Melissa Klug: Some of the things you said about redefining what you want your work life to be is really, that's a lot of the stuff that we talked about when we were in Japan is really redefining, what that looks like for all of us and what truly makes us happy in our work life.
I think is one of the biggest things that we got out of our trip. I don't want to speak for you, but that's what I got out of it for me.
Kristin DeCou: I agree. The trip was a lot more, maybe I wasn't expecting, but a lot more about being versus doing, you know, if you go on vacation and you're going to museums or attractions, there's a lot of doing, and this trip was a lot more immersive about being, about who you are, about who Marie Kondo is, because she was involved in the planning of the places that we visited and Just who we spoke with and who shared about Japanese philosophy.
And so to me, I think by the end of it, I realized, Oh, I've actually shifted a little bit about who I am and what matters to me based on these experiences, which I was kind of shocked about, and I had told a friend. I felt like this type of immersive experience was more valuable in the impact it had on me than maybe 20 to 50 hours of life coaching sessions, which I will do from occasion to occasion.
And I find that really helpful because it helps you move forward. But if you can really change your core of who you are moving toward the life that you want, that has impacts that you can't imagine, weeks and months from now.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. So let's get into the trip itself.
People maybe don't realize this, that, you know, there is a big machine behind trying to really spark the joy of organizing across the world. And that is KonMari International. There is also KonMari Japan. So Marie started the Method and then there was a company that built up behind it as they realized this was really a global movement.
Right. So KonMari. The organization planned a trip to Japan. And I first heard about it and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. I'd been to Japan one other time, but I was like, well, yeah, this might be kind of fun, and the way that it was talked about is, you'll see some places that were important to Marie and developing her Method of organizing, which has been important to a lot of us.
And I was like, Oh, it'll be a fun trip to Japan. I'll probably meet some nice new people. I'll see a few places that I'd never been to before. And I, I think that you probably felt the same way based on what you just said, but this ended up being a completely transformational experience. It wasn't just a trip to Japan.
It really was something that made me rethink so many things about my life and my business and organizing and, and all of those things.
Kristin DeCou: Yeah, I agree. Being able to see and experience the trip with a group of organizers who are also very joy focused, intentional centered, it just helped me rethink. A lot of things actually about my business. And when we talk to clients again about ideal lifestyle, I think a lot of us have think about that all the time, but we don't actually give it the time and space.
And there was a lot of silence on the trip. And so being able to be comfortable in silence, and to notice the thoughts that were coming up as you're experiencing different things. I think that brought up a lot for me in terms of what I want for my life and my business. And some small changes I could make in my day to day schedule.
And ideal day that would have more lasting effects.
Melissa Klug: One of the things that you just said is in the KonMari Method, one of the things we talk to our clients about is what is your ideal lifestyle? what are your goals for your space? What do you want your space to feel like? There is a lot of talking and a lot of feeling in the Method.
And I know that there are organizers that do all sorts of different kinds of organizing. I myself do different kinds of organizing, but when you're able to get deep with a client what do you want your life to look like and how can your home build around that life? That is something that I've always thought about, but this trip made me think about it a lot more deeply and about how much we really help our clients.
We're not just giving them a pretty pantry. We're not just giving them a space where they can hang their keys where they don't lose them seven times a day. We're really helping them live better and more thoughtfully. I don't ever want to diminish the work we do. So I have said many times, if you ask my mother in law what I do, she'd probably say she cleans houses.
And I'm like, no, you can't really explain what we do. Right. Because it is so deep. No matter what you're doing for a client, it's really deep work we're doing in their most sacred space. And that was one of the things that made me think a lot about the gift that we're giving people by organizing.
Kristin DeCou: Exactly. And I think, I mean, when we talk about ideal lifestyle, some clients maybe aren't even familiar with how to think about that. And I think a lot of it does go back to, if you've had more time and energy, what would you do with it? And you want to get organized because X, Y, Z, but also just what is your ideal day?
And we talked a lot about rituals in the morning and in the evening, and we took a deeper dive in the weekend seminar on Kurashi, which is literally just ideal lifestyle in Japanese. And I think something that really stood out to me as I was I was sharing a little bit more about this in the seminar and.
What does that look like to build in a more joyful, more space, more refreshed evening and morning routine? I love hiking and national parks and lots of adventuring with my family. And there's something that's called micro adventures. And I love this.
This was coined by Alistair Humphries, who talks about this as not what you do from nine to five, but what you do from five to nine. So 5. 00 PM to 9. 00 AM, after you get home from work, before you start work. And I love this idea of building in little micro joys. So in the morning, what are three things that you can do that would really just set you up for success for the day?
Like for me, it's having my favorite coffee. And having a mindful moment about that. And then it's snuggling with my kids or doing an activity. Like my son is really into sticker books right now. So we did sticker book morning. And then the third thing is that me time, which is more of my like emotional, mental, like just taking 20 minutes to do whatever I want.
And sometimes honestly, that is just tidying up and listening to a podcast and other times it's You know, just, just sitting and, and not doing much of all, and so, those kinds of things I think can help you really can figure how do I want to spend my day?
Because once your work starts, that's going to look different. And there's a lot that goes into that busy work schedule, but before and after what are things that you can do to feel refreshed and also to not feel rushed. And that was the big Lesson for me, I think, from Japan is there was a lot of just gracious hospitality, order just general in how I perceive the culture, just very warm and I didn't perceive it as rushed and even the time that we took and, you know, Had a lot of silence.
It was nothing was about rushing. Everything was about just being present. And I think that being mindful and present is lost a little bit, especially in, even in our organizing culture, I think, cause we're really productive people. And I know I really like to be efficient and effective. And I almost pride myself on that sometimes.
And you have to let a little bit of that go to just connect again, more with like who you are and your being and. What you're trying to get out of this business and your life and also pursuing the work that you want.
Melissa Klug: That I think was one of my biggest takeaways is I am. I also, I liked the way you said it, I'm committed to efficiency.
I think is what you said. Like, I, I, I don't think that. I am one of those people that I'm constantly rushing around. I am constantly on the go doing two things at once, doing five things at once. I'm constantly rushing. And that was one of the things that I really got out of it is I'm so tired of that, honestly.
I think our culture, you know, you and I both live in the United States. We have global listeners to this. It's, I know it's different everywhere, but in our culture, that hustle idea is very rewarded. It is, it is rewarded. It is encouraged. It is really a huge part of the message that we're given as we constantly have to be going.
And I think also as entrepreneurs, there are so many demands on our time. on our days. And so I really just got out of it that I really want to slow down. And one of the things that I know about myself is I'm doing so many things that I'm actually not doing a good service to the people that rely on me.
Sometimes I have an organizing client that's emailing me and I miss their email because I'm working on these 22 emails over here. And I just, I personally know that I need to slow down to speed up. That was one of my biggest takeaways.
Kristin DeCou: Yeah, I agree. And I think. On a trip like that where you're being led and guided, you are forced in some ways to slow down.
Yeah. You know, even just to take 20 minutes of being mindful, with your eyes open, just taking in whatever's around you. I honestly don't know if I've ever done that. And so the Japanese garden in front of me was so lovely, but being able to build in those mindful moments and. And I think also a lot of it connected to my energy and the energy that I have for myself and the energy that I'm putting out for those around me because I think when we are honing in on all that productivity that we want to achieve, it, it kind of has a frenetic energy, which is not always bad, but I think, I realized it can affect my kids.
It can affect my clients if I'm like that, it and being able to be still and hold space for clients. And your family is a really it's a gift and I think I took a lot of that and received it as a gift when we had a few of these types of experiences.
Melissa Klug: I didn't want to turn this into a travel log of all the things that we did because then, because I, you know, like I've had times in my life where people are like, do you want to see my 6, 000 pictures of my vacation?
And I'm like, no, actually I don't. But we went and visited a lot of places that incorporated. Like you said, either silence or quiet meditation, or just thinking about things. And I don't think that many of us really stop and think. One of the things that I recognized in myself is I am constantly trying to get the most out of every minute.
And sometimes I realize how noisy that is. Like for instance, I don't just go on a walk. I go on a walk because I have to get 10, 000 steps in. And then I also need to catch up on 62 business podcasts that I haven't listened to yet. So then I listened to them on 2.0 speed so that I can listen to them faster.
That was one of my biggest takeaways is I am. Multitasking, we'll call it multitasking, but I'm not actually paying attention to anything and I'm not getting out of it what I need to get out of it. I'm just always rushing to the next thing or trying to speed up and there were so many times on this trip where we were just asked to sit and just listen.
To nature or to the person that was teaching us something. And, you know, that was not a time when we were on our phones also on Instagram scrolling so that we could, respond to things or checking emails. We were just present in that moment. And I just thought that was really a beautiful part of what we learned is.
You just, there's just no need for all of the things all of the time.
Kristin DeCou: Yeah, I definitely relate to that. I'm very goal oriented and I feel like a lot of your listeners are probably very goal oriented.
Melissa Klug: Very. And
Kristin DeCou: again, that is a great thing and I think it can motivate the people around us to do more and to be more as well.
But there's a point when that kind of overarching goal takes over The actual activity and what you're trying to achieve. I really like that idea of, you know, when you are taking a few moments to yourself or taking time away or being present with your kids and just having that quality time. I feel like it's like.
A mental health bank. And there's these daily deposits where you're eliminating the stress. And sometimes we don't realize we're stressing ourselves out. And we're doing it to ourselves. And I think that's where it goes back to this idea of being rushed. And so this, yeah, I remember when Marie had said in her book, the key to a joyful morning is not to feel too rushed.
This is the most simple statement. I've really taken that to heart in building in more time for almost everything I do throughout the day. So before we leave in the morning, before I take my kids to school, we built in an additional five to 10 minutes, so I'm not rushing them to get their shoes on, which sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.
And then with a client, I'm leaving five to 10 minutes. So that when I arrive, I'm not right there at 10 a. m., but I'm there at 9:55 and I just have a few minutes to think through the session and how I want to support her and all those things. Just these 5 to 10 minutes. Little things of time can make a huge difference in your mental and emotional state and the energy that you're bringing to any situation.
Melissa Klug: It's, it's all of those things. Plus it's teaching your clients how they can also build these things into their lives. That's the thing that I just keep trying to tell myself is what did I learn on this trip? And what can I bring to my clients to help them? Like I have a client that I was just trying to talk about a 15 minute nightly reset.
And I just said, think about how you want to come downstairs in the morning. Do you want to come downstairs to a bunch of dishes and to the counter being messy and not knowing where your keys are and not knowing where the lunch boxes are all those things? Or can you incorporate this time so that you can make your morning better?
Like that's what I'm trying to do. Also is. say, not only do I want to make my life better, but I want to be able to bring that to my clients as well. And you're exactly right. When you show up to a client with frenetic energy, even if it's for the best possible reason that you want to get as much done as possible with them, that energy really transfers to them as well.
Kristin DeCou: And I think, I mean, just like you, the daily tidy up in the morning, the evening, it's It is, it can be a game changer in resetting and having that fresh start again for even the following day in the evening. One of my clients right now, she's in her seventies and she was saying that her and her husband, they're definitely in this slowing down phase of life and we're doing her whole house and she says her and her husband work on one project a day and they do that together.
And I don't know, I just, I love that. I mean, it's a very simple thing as well, but then they're just. They're chipping away. They're spending time together. They're doing a house related thing. And I don't know, there was something about, oh, just, we're just doing this one project a day. And so I teed up a few projects for her and her husband to do.
And yeah, we had a really good session.
Melissa Klug: I just think that the whole concept of starting your day right also. Like the, you know, the key is like you said, starting in the morning, not feeling rushed, not yelling at the kids to get out the door, as we all have done a million
Kristin DeCou: times,
Melissa Klug: not yelling at yourself to get out the door, not leaving without the things that you need for your day, like that planning in advance, which I'm more of a fly by the seat of my pants person.
And so it's hard for me that's a hard thing, but it really, it just makes your day so much better. If you start the day out. Rushing around. It really just makes the whole rest of the day. I think like that, the stress transfers to the rest of the day, at least in my world.
Kristin DeCou: Fully agree.
So I would love to hear even from you. Cause obviously I know both of us have talked about this trip and that we're all experienced having a transformative effect on us in big and small ways. And so we'd love to hear from you, how do you In coming back, are you able to incorporate that idea of not feeling rushed or being more mindful or taking more time for yourself?
Melissa Klug: No, it's a great question. So I've actually talked about this with a few people. Again, I did not understand, I did not realize at the start of this trip that it would be the transformative experience that it was, and that I would leave going like, Hey, I really want to make some significant changes in my life and in my business.
And I knew this before I left. I had two huge client projects. When I got back two moves which everybody knows moves are very stressful events for the, the client and the organizer. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to Japan. I'll be gone for, I'll be gone for 10 days.
I'll see you when I get back after I get through a little bit, a little bit of jet lag which ended up by the way, being a lot of jet lag, but that's another story. So, I immediately came back and what I realized was exactly what I said I didn't want to do after the trip is exactly what I came back to.
I said, okay, well, I know I've got these couple of things that I needed to do with these clients, like, but then after that. I'm going to make some more changes and what you realize is it's very easy to just go back to your regular life, like regularly scheduled programming, and I have done that in the past where I've I've had something.
I'm like, Oh, this is really meaningful to me. And then nothing actually ends up changing. And I have worked really hard on reminding myself that I had this transformative experience and I really genuinely want different things. And one of the things I, I realized on this trip is that I need, like I said, I need to slow down to speed up.
And one of the things that I realized is I really do not have time right now for organizing clients. What I need to make time for Are all the people. So all the things that Pro Organizer Studio that really bring so much joy to me and hopefully bring joy to other people as well. And I've really been kind of neglecting that because I have all these organizing clients and I'm rushing around constantly serving those one on one clients, which by the way, I love.
I love organizing with people, but realistically I can make more impact by helping organizers have better businesses. And so for me part of, of what I did was after I came back and after I had that huge rush with those client projects, I said, Hey, just a reminder, we can't go back to all of the normal things of life.
Like you said, you wanted to make changes, so you have to make changes. And so for me, what that looks like is I am taking July. Fully off to do. I mean, off is a relative term, right? But I am not taking organizing clients in July. I am just sitting. In my office, and I'm going to be crafting what my ideal work life looks like and I don't know where I'll end up on that.
Right. But I do know that I have to take that time. And so I have some organizing clients that I have had to say, I'm really sorry. I won't be able to take care of you, but here are some Lovely colleagues of mine who will be great to help you. Spreading the love with some colleagues and still making sure those clients are taken care of. I have one long term client of mine that her project is just taking longer than I anticipated it would, because as it happens sometimes you find out a client takes a really long time to make decisions.
She's a person that needs to think through and talk through lots of decisions. So I just said, Hey, I'm going to work with you through the end of June. And then I'm going to take a little bit of break in July, and then will be back to you.
But for me, I have realized I have to really say if I want to make these changes, I have to figure out what those changes look like and how I can implement them.
So July for me is going to be a full reset month. And yeah, that is a month that we got back in the end of May. So June has been a little bit of a wake up call for me on I'm doing too many things. And in doing too many things, I'm actually letting people down because I'm not able to be fully present.
I'm constantly rushing from one thing to another, and I really want to rethink what that looks like for me. So that's a little overview for you on what did the emotional turmoil
Kristin DeCou: I've been going through. That's so good because I think as organizers, we give ourselves permission to change when our circumstances change.
So obviously if I'm moving cities everything's going to look different, but we don't always give ourselves permission to change when we change. And so it sounds like you actually changed a little bit. You're not a totally different Melissa, but you changed a little bit. And so you need to then go back to the drawing board and reevaluate what that looks like for me.
And I actually did the exact same thing where I came back and I have a few out of town clients. And I used to drive into kind of more urban areas and work with those clients and do four to five hour sessions. And then I realized those are just a little exhausting for me right now. And I also don't have time to be gone all day.
And I don't want to do that anymore. I want to only work with in person organizing clients in my city or within 20 minutes. And I want to do more speaking engagements because I'm really enjoying, as you said, sharing with more people who can then take that knowledge in. Incorporate it into their own lives.
But I do think we don't always reevaluate our lives when we're feeling different. And I think that's a really important point to make.
Melissa Klug: I think we just plug over, we just plug along and are like, well, this is, this is what my life looks like. And we don't take the time unless there is, like you said, an outside precipitating influence, but I just, I've had so many people in my life that have been through some pretty major things in the last couple of years that they didn't anticipate coming.
And, you know, It's just one of those things where you go like I should reevaluate probably every six months What does my business look like rather than just plugging along? And I'm a person if you've listened to this podcast or if anybody's involved in any of the programs that I teach I am very much a person who says say yes, and then figure it out, and I really believe that right But I also believe that you can say yes so much that you lose touch with what you're saying yes to.
And I think that's kind of the biggest thing for me is I have just said yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then I haven't really figured out a plan on how to be able to deliver that. And then the person that loses in that is, is me. And it also affects the people that I'm trying to say yes to because I'm saying yes, and I'm going to be doing 12 other things at that time, if that makes sense. And so I want to be able to slow down and really give my best to myself, to my family, and to the people that rely on me, and not just say yes to everything because that's What the people pleaser in me wants to do.
Kristin DeCou: I absolutely relate to that. And I'm all about you can find a way and I try and teach this to our kids as well. Just being proactive, like there's always a way, but I also had a recent situation in my life where. A family member was trying to make something happen. And then we just asked, do you actually really want to make that?
Like, is this meaningful? And I like, that's really stressful. We're trying to find a way, but do you actually really want to find a way on this one? And it was like, no, I don't actually want to do this anymore. We're not trained to think like that, but those can be the most meaningful decisions that you could actually make is to not do something to
Melissa Klug: I listened to a podcast the other day that was talking about, you know, there's this idea of FOMO fear of missing out. And she was talking about she really wants you to change to JOMO joy of missing out. I've heard that before, but it didn't, it just hit me in the right way that day, because I do think that we try to force ourselves into doing things sometimes that we're like, we know this isn't great for us, but we feel obligated to do it.
Another thing I took out of Japan is I don't want to do things out of obligation anymore. I want to do them. Because they're important because they're meaningful and sometimes saying no actually opens you up to it's not only opening up your own life or your business, but me saying no to organizing clients, I'm giving them to someone else that I love and trust.
I'm saying no, but here is an alternative for you. I still want to help you. I'm just going to help you in a different way.
Kristin DeCou: Yeah. And I think sometimes that's the most respectful and honoring thing you could do for your client and for yourself.
Melissa Klug: There were a few times that we did actual meditation. We, we started some really, really meaningful meditation practices. But one of the things that we learned in one of these meditation sessions is basically just take everything as it comes. There's, there's nothing bad or good in it. It's just listening. And there, there was one time, for instance, that we were meditating in this very beautiful garden and all of a sudden there is a very loud chainsaw.
And normally I would have been like, gosh darn it, that chainsaw really interrupted me. But right before that, the Buddhist monk that was talking to us was just like, you take everything as it comes. It's neither good nor bad. It just is. And that, I don't know if that impacted you like it did me, but I think about that a lot now.
I tend to be a reactive person. So something will happen and I'll immediately go to like stress level 11. And I, I also have tried to dial that down and just say, it's neither good nor bad. So I feel like you probably connected with that a little bit too.
Kristin DeCou: I absolutely did.
And I, I don't know that I've done that type of meditative exercise before. And so just to say, yes, the idea was that you're in an outdoor patio looking out at a Japanese garden. And the exercise was to sit there with your eyes open for 20 minutes. and just be. If you hear a child playing, you let it pass.
If you hear a horn, you know, a car horn honking, you, you just accept it, but it's not a distraction. Having done that, I will say the 20 minutes went by very fast. I noticed things I would not have noticed before, whether it's the movement of the leaves or What like the silhouette of the rocks in the garden and what those reminded me of, but I will say that just that simple exercise and doing it for 20 minutes, coming back to my life with two young kids was exceptionally helpful because I will say the first week I did really good.
I would give myself an A. The second week that I came back, maybe like a B and now it's You know, I'm still working with that, but the idea of when I'm with my kids in the morning, and then one is asking me for something, and then the other chimes in, sometimes I immediately rush to see that as a distraction or trying to control the situation.
And I have learned and continue learning and practicing that I don't have to control what one of my kids is saying to me, or that. One is trying to talk over the, I can react calmly. I can accept it and I don't have to be frustrated by it. And I think it's that removing the distraction, removing the frustration allows you to experience a lot more peace and joy throughout the day.
And again, this is a practice and that's what I always remind clients it is a practice and the more you do it, the better you get. And so I'm trying to practice it a lot. I definitely. Fail sometimes and feel that rush of like, ah, I need to, control the situation, but I've gotten a lot better.
And that has been one of the biggest takeaways from the entire trip. So I'm really glad you brought that up.
Melissa Klug: And I love that. And the concept too, is one of the things I've been trying to give myself grace on is because I did come back and I wanted to make all these big changes. And then, like I said, it just real life just happened again.
I just went right back in and. And I have been annoyed by that, right, and I have been trying to just give myself the grace of, this is a marathon and not a sprint. We're not, I do not have to say, I have to blow up my entire life, but it is that habit development, just like we teach a client.
It's, it's building that muscle. It's building the habit. And then, you know, you give yourself an A one week and a B one week and you may get a D minus one week. Who knows? Last week was a D minus week for me on some of these meaningful things that I wanted to incorporate into my life, but that doesn't mean it's over.
You just start over and you try it again the next week. And to me, that's the biggest thing is reminding yourself that it is not well, I've, I messed up one day, so it's all over.
Kristin DeCou: Yes. I think that's very important to be. And I also, I'm not always the most patient person. So being patient with yourself to realize, okay, you know, this is a, An off time or situation.
But making those tiny steps have, it's a commitment to yourself towards a life that you want and the person that you're becoming and that you want to become, because I want to be a more patient mom and I want to not try and control situations. And that takes practice. And the more I do it, you know, we're on the journey.
I told a few friends that coming back, I felt like on my journey towards The things that I'm pursuing, I'm like, one rung closer.
Melissa Klug: Yeah.
Kristin DeCou: You know, there's not really an arriving, but I do feel closer and then that gives me motivation to keep trying and practicing and doing more, and seeing where that goes.
Melissa Klug: I like that idea of one rung hire because you know it and who knows how high the ladder goes. Right. the ladder might go really high. But it's interesting that you said, you know, giving yourself the patient, I'm also not a patient person, but I go, I have infinite patience for clients.
Why don't I have that same patience for myself? I really need to give myself that same grace and that same patience. And we met a lot of Buddhist monks on our trip and. They all, I understand that they probably have stresses in their life and I only saw a little, a little sliver of their life, but they seemed just calm and present and just like, things that might come into their life.
That are bothersome are not as bothersome as they may be to the rest of us. And so I've thought about that a lot about how I can take some of those, those lessons. And, like you said, it's not, it's just something that happens. We don't have to react to it. That, that was one of the biggest things that I took away is I would just like to be a more calm, peaceful person rather than this whirling dervish of activity.
Kristin DeCou: Yeah. Well, it sounds like you are taking those steps. Yeah. And you built in a lot of time for yourself if you're taking all of July, trying to, yeah. And I'm excited to see what comes of that.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. Me too. Yeah. I'll let you know. Okay. I know you've said a couple of different things, but the exercise that you let us through About, you know, how do you want to structure your day?
I had never really thought about that. This sounds silly. Like you should think about how your day is structured, but I really didn't. And have you done anything in your day to really make big changes? I know you said leaving a little bit more time with your kids. So you aren't rushing around, but I haven't fully restructured my day yet.
So maybe I'm looking for inspiration.
Kristin DeCou: Ooh. Yeah. I mean, I think my morning, that was a big. Take away from me is just building in that additional time and doing little things that I love. And so seeing breaks throughout the day as an opportunity to do something that I love. And also that idea of building in, sometimes when it comes to like self care or movement, you know, I, for me, I'll want to do a long hike and there's been seasons of life where I can just go out for a few hours.
And that's, you know, it's not one of those seasons now, but even going out for 20 minutes. And I think finding ways that in those breaks throughout the day, doing something that's going to fuel some aspect of your physical health, emotional health, mental well being, something like that to help you feel centered.
And honestly, sometimes for me, it's just Putting away laundry and listening to a podcast and that I feel good about that. I feel accomplished and that's the break that I needed. And so I'll try different things. It's still a work in progress. Well, one of, you know, I'll try like 15 minutes of working and then 10 minutes of this break where I do something for myself, like make another coffee or.
Go for a walk, or, you know, but I think, I think a lot of us as organizers, it's, it's trying and prototyping, like, yeah, I'm going to try something this day, and I'm going to try, and then finding the thing that sticks. And so for me, Seeing breaks as an opportunity to fuel myself and do something that I love is something I can get behind every time I feel like, okay, I'm going to take a little break.
I'm not just going to, why trying not to, you know, go on social media or do anything like that, but just do something that's going to fuel me and realize your energy. Again, you get out what you put in. I would love to hear what you end up incorporating because you're right. Depending on the week, you could, it could be stressful.
You have a lot going on. And so, Not also setting the standards so high that you can't achieve it. Like I'm going to do this and this and this, and maybe just leaving space. for whatever comes up for you, and doing that thing.
Melissa Klug: One of the things that I, I have been careful to more meaningfully incorporate is when you talked about movement, you know, we walked a lot in Japan.
We, we walked a lot of places. We got in a lot of steps every day. And one of the things that I have said is there are, there are a million days Where I've said, Oh my gosh, I have too many things to do. I have too many emails to respond to. I've you know, I've got to edit a podcast. I've got to do this.
I've got to do all these things that I've said. I don't have time to go for a walk today. And I'm like, no. That's really important. Like it's important for mental health. It's important for physical health. It's important to keep my energy up. It's important as I, you know, pretty soon in my life in the next year, move into my 50s.
Like I go, I really, this is important. And, and I was able. To devote 10 very meaningful kind of disconnected days when I was in Japan, why can't I come up with an hour in my day to go for a walk? There's no reason I can't. Like, are there things that might go undone? Yeah, maybe. And that's okay, too, because this is something that's important to me.
So I've been trying to incorporate some of those things and just remind myself that there is time in a day. If I choose to make the time in the day for the things that are important.
Kristin DeCou: Yeah. Yeah. So I think the same thing with like life at home with kids is being able to give yourself permission to even just have that quality time with your family and not have it be tidy.
I love this. I don't even know where I heard it, but the idea of tidying with, Oh, trying to tidy your home while kids are there is like trying to eat, eat an Oreo while brushing your teeth. That's amazing. Which I love because. When you're trying to spend time with them and tidy, it literally does. Like you can't, you can't.
Marie shared a lot about this on her own journey of giving herself space to just focus on her kids in that time. And I. I've tried to do that as well as much as I can and to, and that might mean letting some things go for a time and then coming back to it later at night when they're in bed or, but that idea of like when I, when I picture the Oreo and brushing the teeth, like there's, there's no, like that image I also share with moms a lot.
It's really helpful when you're trying to do everything at once. It actually doesn't. Everything, everywhere, all the way, you know, doesn't really work. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: Well, and I think, you know, there were some things that, that happened on our trip that we are keeping you like just within the trip, you know, just to keep it, one of the things that I said is I wasn't taking a lot of pictures on this trip cause I really wanted to stay present.
And there were some times that, Marie talked to us, Marie joined us for several parts of this trip. And there were some really wonderful things that went on for that. So I, I'm not. You know, saying something that was supposed to be kept private. But one thing that Marie did talk about was last year when she got quoted in the Washington Post about like, you know, what people took away from it is I've totally given up on being organized.
And a lot of people, you know, really glommed onto that as like, Oh, Marie Kondo doesn't care anymore. So the rest of us don't have to care. And that was not what she was saying. She was just saying that what she's realized is that. With kids with family. And by the way, you don't even have to have kids. You can just, you can be single and still want to have different things in your life, prioritize the things that are important to you.
And those other things will fall into place when they need to, it is not that, you know, she's giving up on being organized. That wasn't the message, but it was like you said, sometimes we have to reevaluate those parts of our lives and what are important to us. And it's not important to us to clean up the Cheerios crumbs.
It's important to us. To do a puzzle with our kids or whatever that looks like. Yeah. Exactly.
Kristin DeCou: And that's a practice as well, for sure.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, I really have a lot of meaningful changes that I want to make, but is a different journey for all of us.
So what do you think your life looks like three months or six months from now with what we learned?
Kristin DeCou: Ooh. Okay. I like that question. I'm going to say empowered. So I feel empowered to spend my days the way that I want to and curate them, empowered to be present with my kids and adventuring and doing things with them where they feel empowered.
That my role in coaching, I'm able to empower others on their journeys because I'm coming from a place of. feeling full and full in what I'm doing. And I think, you know, there's, I, I always have a lot of goals, so I definitely have my, if you were to say what you want to be doing, I can think of my goals on my checklist, but at the end of the day, it's really about becoming the type of person that you want to be.
And so I want to be, I want to be a good mom. I want to be good at helping other people succeed in their organizing businesses, just like I'm sure you do. Yeah, I do. I want to be pursuing some of the passions that really make me come alive. And we do have some trips and adventures plan that bring those to life.
Yeah, I think the word that really stands out is empowered and some of that comes from within. And some of that comes from the activities and people and community that you surround yourself with. And so I think that's what I love about your podcast is I feel empowered. Like every time I listened and you give, and just by saying, you're going to take a break in July, you may be giving someone else the permission to say, I'm going to take a little bit of break here in this area of my business.
That's not, you know, sparking joy, or I don't want to do social media right now, or I'm, I'm going to do something else that is really. Getting me closer to the business that I want. And so, yeah, I guess that would be the word or theme for me.
Melissa Klug: I love that. One of the things that I want to concentrate on is how, and I know that you feel the same way I want people to create a sustainable.
organizing entrepreneurship for themselves. And what can happen in entrepreneurship sometimes is it can be all consuming if you want it to be, you know, And it really can be something where you're like, I feel like I have to do all of these things all the time. And I constantly have to be thinking of new things.
And, and, you know, that hustle idea, I think is particularly prevalent in entrepreneurship and what I would like to avoid because we work with almost all women. And sometimes, a lot of houses, women carry them mental and emotional load of, of those homes. And, I would like for people to have sustainable businesses so that they don't end up burning out and then leaving the industry.
We were on this trip with organizers from around the world. So it wasn't just Americans. We had people from Europe and Australia and Asia. We got to talk to all of these organizers from around the world about what their KonMari businesses looked like, what their organizing businesses looked like.
And I just thought about all of the people that we have been able to impact all of the clients that we've been able to go in and help. We talked about client stories and all of those things. And if we don't. Create the ability for people to have sustainable businesses that they don't burn out from. I just think about all the people that will be missing out on our great help.
Sometimes you have to take a step back and say, I need a break so that I can recharge so that I can be my best for all of these other people and create that sustainable business.
Kristin DeCou: Exactly. And I think also just surrounding yourself with different people. people in your group or cohort or community that are pursuing this entrepreneurial path.
Because the reality, and my husband's an entrepreneur as well, is it's like this roller coaster and you go up and down and you could be killing it one day. And then the next month you're like, what am I doing? And being able to hear real life Stories from other organizers that of what they're struggling with and the type of clients that pursuing, and sometimes they're getting them and sometimes not and what their businesses look like.
I think it's really helpful to really kind of shatter this, this glass, not glass ceiling, but just image we have of what we need to be or what organizers are, because. In reality, it looks really different there's a lot going on there. And there's a lot to manage and there's a lot of hats. And so just giving yourself like, okay, this can look different and that's okay. And I'm on this journey and that's okay.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, totally.
And I would like to for myself and for other people remind yourself that one of the beauties of our business is it can look like anything we want it to.
Kristin DeCou: You know,
Melissa Klug: you went from three to five days of organizing to saying one to two is exactly where I want to be.
And you have other things that go with it. You know, your KonMari job is, is a different part of your life, but it's okay to take those seasons and say, I need to look at this and make it a little bit different. So,
Kristin DeCou: yes. Well, I I think that's what draws people to you as being able to be vulnerable and share and bring people that share different perspectives.
We surround ourselves by other people that have similar perspectives. That's very true. Immersed in that can be really life changing.
Melissa Klug: One of the things that this trip I think brought all of us though is we've talked about some big, big picture things, you know, some really big.
you know, learnings that we had or things that we want to do differently. But it also just reminded me how lovely people in organizing are. It was just a group of truly wonderful people. And, you know, KonMari is, and I understand some people do a very different kind of organizing, and that's totally fine.
I am here for all kinds of organizing, all of the parts of the world. But, really just being surrounded by people. Who all were just there for the joy of what we get to do with clients. It reminded me how wonderful the community of organizers at large is across the world. It was really just an awesome thing to be like, this is a great industry filled with really great people.
Kristin DeCou: I feel the same. I also feel like the term just kindred spirit comes to mind. Even some people where, you know, I have, I had never met you before. I would feel like I knew you because I've seen you in the community or on Instagram. And same with some other organizers that I had known and then others I had never met before, but just there's this pull that brings us all together and an open mindedness.
And a curiosity, I think that drives like, let's find out more, let's figure out what's the why under the why and being able to create space for other people to share their journey, even to be around other organizers and even when I came back, I sought out other opportunities where I can be around organizers because I'm here.
Alone in my community. And I think it's so important. So whether that's a conference or maybe it's a virtual retreat or something else, I'm, I'm definitely interested in pursuing more of those opportunities because it really brings me to life and gives invigorates my own organizing business and the way that I want to show up for my clients.
And so would encourage others, which I'm sure many of your listeners already doing, but to find out. What that experience is for you, whether it's a conference, a summit something that you can connect online again, but just something where you're. In the presence and being able to open up and share with other organizers.
Super impact.
Melissa Klug: I have always endorsed. You know, I had a there is a person that's important to me in my life as much. She's my KonMari BFF. And I, I found her at the very beginning of my organizing business. You need people who understand what you have going on, not just as an entrepreneur, I have other entrepreneur friends and they're a category of people that I rely on, but then you need organizing friends so that you can go to them and be like, Hey, I had this weird thing happen today, or I have a challenging client and I want to talk through it.
If we are that source for you, that's wonderful, but please like, look around your. Look around your neighborhood, because like I said, I was just reminded, Oh my gosh, there are so many lovely people in this industry and we're all generally very helpful people. So we want to help each other, not just our clients, but yeah, find, find your people because it really, it makes things a lot better.
And, and yeah, we are, we're kind of all, you and I are just alone in our houses right now, like doing our work and it helps to have that community.
Kristin DeCou: For me, it's helped to have other organizers that I connect with and then also female entrepreneurs where I live because they're dealing with those are two different cohorts that are dealing with different.
Elements of being a business owner and offering services. And for me to have both of those, it's like this complimentary Venn diagram where that's the sweet spot is I have my local female entrepreneur group. And then I have other organizers one on one and others I meet with every so often. And when those come together, that's the sweet spot for me.
Melissa Klug: And that's actually one of the things that I want to make more time and space for, because I think there have been times where I have said like, Oh, I don't really have time to do those to make those connections right now, and you know, it's one of those things that you realize you have to make the time for the things that matter to you, whether it's a walk around the block, whether it's meditating, whether it is, just reevaluating everything in your business or just connecting with other people.
I think there are times it's very easy to go like, I don't have time to go out to lunch with X, Y, Z this week. Yeah, you do. Go make the time because it's, it's really, really important to make those connections.
Kristin DeCou: Agreed.
Melissa Klug: I think we got it all. Didn't we? Got it all. Okay. Can you tell everyone where they can find you in the, as we just got done saying, you don't have to do social media. You don't have to do all the things, but if you want to connect and want to learn more about you, where can people find you in the world?
Kristin DeCou: So my business is Modern Refresh, I'm on Instagram. My website's www.modernrefresh.com and you can email me at hello@modernrefresh.com. So pretty easy.
Melissa Klug: I will add all of this in the show notes, I would love for people to follow you because I'm so happy that I got to know you on this trip, but it's just one of those things that even if you did not get the time with Kristin in person, you can connect with her across the great wide interwebs.
And then also, if you are a person who's listening to this and you are thinking about, Hey, KonMari is the right path for me. I really want to learn more about Marie's The whole process to become a certified consultant in Marie Kondo's world which I would totally encourage.
It's been just the greatest joy of my organizing life and it's how, it's how I started my path to entrepreneurship. So you can also, I assume, contact you there, ask questions, all of those things, because it's. A wonderful, truly a wonderful group of people.
Kristin DeCou: It is. And I just want to thank you because you are a source of inspiration and encouragement for so many organizers.
And I feel that myself. And so thanks for continuing to come back week after week or multiple times a week to share more on the podcast, because I think sometimes this is like the one. Organizing podcasts for organizers to hear that type of content, as well as The other things that are helping us build our business, but this is a really important piece.
So thank you for being that person.
Melissa Klug: I am happy to be that person and hopefully I can create a, create a little bit of a bubble so that I'm able to be that person even more, which is what really is spark and joy for me right now. So, thank you so much for coming and talking to us. And I'm sure that I, after we hang up, I will think of 20 more things that I wanted to talk to you about.
So I may have to have you on another time. So thanks for being here.
Kristin DeCou: Lovely. Thank you so much for having me.
Melissa Klug: Thank you so much for joining us today. And talking about our trip to Japan. If you have any questions or if you do want to see a few pictures from my trip, You can hit me up on social media. I am at @proorganizerstudio. And I will be happily posting a few of the fun things that we did on the trip. In addition to all of the other life-changing transformational things that we just talked about. I appreciate you listening to this podcast and if there's ever anything I can do to help you. I am@helloatproorganizerstudio.com. Have an awesome week organizers.
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