206 | Simple is BETTER + Working with ADHD clients with Cabri Carpenter of Minimize Then Organize
It's Day 3 of the WEEK OF CABRI and we are diving into one of THE most important subjects for organizers--working with clients with ADHD.
Adapting to clients with ADHD means talking about how we need to emphasize the wide spectrum of symptoms and the need for flexibility. We are also talking about the significance of not overcomplicating organizational systems and maintaining simplicity for clients. Lots of great things here for our favorite professional organizers!
00:55 The Importance of Working with ADHD Clients
01:34 Adapting to Clients' Needs
08:56 Simplifying the Organizing Process
13:34 Future Trends in Professional Organizing
17:27 Embracing Slow Periods in Business
20:25 Conclusion and Contact Information
You can listen here, read the full transcript below, or find us on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you love to listen to podcasts!
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
Hey pro organizers, this is Melissa Klug and you are listening to the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast. Professional organizing changed my entire life. After 20 years of working at huge companies, I started working for myself, opened an organizing business and grew it to six figures. And now I spend all day every day here at Pro Organizer Studio, teaching professional organizers around the world, how to grow the business of their dreams.
I'm so excited that you're here listening and I am ready to get started.
Melissa Klug: When I texted Cabri to let her know that I was calling this the week of Cabri on the podcast, she goes, oh, Lord, people are going to get really sick of me. And I'm like, well, they were listening to me for like 140 episodes. So. Who knows if they're not sick of me, they're not going to be sick of you, but I have never sick of listening to Cabri
And today we were talking about a couple of things that I think are crazy important. One of which is working with clients with ADHD. So I am ready to jump in with, Cabri just a friendly reminder. If you haven't heard already, we have a new workshop go to poroadmap.com to get that in your inbox.
And then also, if you want to talk to me about any of the programs that we have at Pro Organizer Studio, our Organizing Essentials and Inspired Organizer are open for enrollment. Right now. I'd love to chat with you. Email me. hello@proorganizerstudio.com.
Here's the person that I am never sick of. And hopefully. you are not sick of me either. Thanks organizers, as always, for listening, and have a great day.
Melissa Klug: The other thing that I'm going to put out there as a trend. That I think we have to be really aware of.
Is the rise in diagnosis, whether either actual or TIkTok diagnosis of ADHD. And one of the things that I see a lot in our group is someone will come in and they will say, I have a potential client. She has ADHD. How do I work with her? And the answer is.
ADHD is not like a cold, it is a wide spectrum of symptoms and other things and one of the things that I will be talking about a lot is we all have to figure out how to work with ADHD clients because like I said some of them are getting diagnosed, some people are getting diagnosed Very legitimately.
And some people are just saying, Oh, I have all these symptoms. I'm pretty sure this is me. And we have to be really adaptable to working with those clients. Now,
Cabri Carpenter: I fully agree with that as somebody who had a late ADHD diagnosis in life. And I just realized my brain just works differently. Yes. ADHD has caused good things and when it comes to the problem solving and wanting the challenge and a little bit of that dopamine hit of Ooh, I did something fun today.
But then I also realized like my brain automatically skips over steps that feel like common sense. So when I'm trying to teach a new team member something and I'm like, Oh, you just do this and this. And they're like, wait, what? I don't know what you just did. And I'm like, Oh, but it was so simple.
And I realized there's half the steps missing. Same thing for our clients. There was one client that, anybody who works with ADHD clients, you'll love this. She had boxes in her closet that she would store like backstock makeup and skincare and that kind of stuff. But she got to the point where things would just pile, like most people with ADHD, you know, pilers versus filers, the whole conversation.
I told her, I was like, what if we changed out the boxes with lids for drawers? And she was like, I don't know if I want to spend the money it doesn't seem worthwhile. But she was essentially taking the things and setting them on top of the box. It was the block of the lid. Of open the lid, put the thing inside the lid, close the lid.
That did not work for her. But the, pull the drawer, put it in, close the drawer, that worked for her. That's ADHD. People don't realize that something that simple is ADHD. And how it can affect their life of, this is a non organized system versus an organized system. Very simple tweak and change. But that goes back to being adaptable.
You may not have a client who even knows that they have ADHD. They may not have ever even been self diagnosed from TikTok. They may just be like, I don't know why these systems and these processes don't work for me. Guess what? You have to be the person to figure that out for them. Maybe not diagnose them, but say, hey, maybe this works a little bit better.
Let's see if this You know, let's see if this would be easier to maintain or better for the house or that's where we have to be very open minded and willing to learn and willing to adjust. If we are an organizer who walks into a client's home and says, nope, you have to have things in boxes with lids and nope, you have to have labels exactly like this and nope, you have to make sure that this stays here and not there.
You're going to be one of those people who will not make the five years.
Melissa Klug: Honestly, I totally agree with you and that adaptability and that flexibility is something that I preach from the mountaintops of working. in a client's home. It's not just about our businesses, but being able to look at that client and be like, explain to me how you know, explain to me how you learn, explain to me how you do this.
Give me a little bit of how you do X, Y, Z system. You can start asking those questions and then getting a really good idea of what works for them. As we all know, there are I'm not going to get it. Yep. So that makes you a next level organizer. Yes. But my argument. To anyone who is listening to this is I would start to assume that every potential client that is contacting you might have an ADHD diagnosis or not.
That is, to me, you should assume that they have it until you are proven that they do not rather than going, Oh, I have this client that's come to me and they have ADHD. What do I do? That is how I'm viewing it now. That's a really good way to view it. I actually like that. It's almost everyone that comes to me now.
Almost everyone that is coming in is here's what's going on. Do you feel
Cabri Carpenter: like you were attracting your clients because you have ADHD and you know how to speak to them in a way that registers? And so they're naturally just drawn and attracted
Melissa Klug: to you. Maybe I'm one of the TIkTok diagnose. I have not gotten actually diagnosed, but I'm 100 percent positive.
I am also late life ADHD for 100 reasons that we don't need to go into. But possibly it is. It's very possible. I also think one of the big things is now people are very willing to talk about these things. I think people are much more open about. I have a diagnosis of blah. About pretty much anything, depression, anxiety, and we're much more open about mental health concerns.
And so I think that people are very willing to admit, Hey, I have ADHD and or I have these things that are going on. And so that is the opening of the conversation rather than something you discover in the, I've been working with this client for five sessions and that they're just now telling me about this.
Yeah. So people are much more blunt about here's what I've got going on. So, but to answer your question, and I just did an ADHD thing is I just circled around the question you originally asked, which is maybe I am attracting them because I just have the right series of things that I have said, or they come to my website and they just connect with something they have seen there that they recognize in themselves.
Very possible. My website is a little chaotic. In a way that I enjoy. I feel like
Cabri Carpenter: once I started talking about my ADHD diagnosis, I had more clients that the only way I know how to describe it is they. registered and understood that crackhead squirrel, like that lives in me. Like they saw that and felt comfortable and understood by somebody from the outside.
And so, I don't know, we have had a lot more clients that have had ADHD and I have to assume there's some sort of correlation
Melissa Klug: there. Yeah. Very possible. I also think that you should be comfortable enough to say, that's not something I'm comfortable with dealing with. That's also okay. I would like to be clear about that because there are some organizers that is going to be a level of discomfort that they're not going to be able to deal with.
And so then that's another case where you got to have referral partners of someone who are like, yes, give me that challenge. I will take it on. Yes. Cause I did have a client that came to me several weeks ago and she had worked with another organizer who was 0 percent a good match for her and was very judgmental about everything that she had going on.
And you know, I, she was like, I can't do that. Totally. Okay. But you gotta know who you are and serve those clients. So. Absolutely.
Can we talk about one of yours and my favorite subjects about organizing organizers? Stop over complicating things, please.
Please stop overcomplicating things for yourself, for your clients.
Cabri Carpenter: Please stop. I think that there is a whole demographic of people and or organizers who don't even realize that they're doing it. And it's not till things stop working.
And it kind of goes back to that. Maybe I'm overcomplicating things and maybe that's why things are not working. Maybe it's not even that our industry is changing as much. Maybe we're the cause of the changes and we're the ones that are the problems. But yeah, man we like to be perfectionists and we like to do things a very specific way, but that can sometimes cause us to be too into the business or too into the industry.
And so for us, we say, yeah, organizing product and for somebody who's not familiar with it. They're like, but what is that? I don't know. And that's fair. If you've never hired an organizer before, you shouldn't know. You shouldn't know what to expect. Same thing with, can we talk about sales process?
Yeah. Very long drawn out, complicated sales process, whether that's discounting packages or different rates for different organizers. And it's just messy. And it's going to be hard for your potential clients to understand it and wrap their head around it. And if they're not wrapping their head around it, they're not hiring you.
Clients
Melissa Klug: are overwhelmed, tired, they have tremendous decision fatigue. If you are talking to a mom, they're just freaking tired. They're tired. Even if you have really good partner women still bear the brunt of most household tasks. So that's just reality.
If you make it really hard for them to make a decision, they want as we like to say, the big glittery easy button. If you make it hard for them, they are going to walk. You have between 10 and 30 seconds if you're lucky to hook them. Into your way of doing things or your way of approaching things.
And if you have a website that is 75 scrolls of you know, I've got this package and this package and this is they're out, they're gone. Because they're also going to assume it's really complex to work with you once you get on site. Even
Cabri Carpenter: like this sound, and this is again, another hill I will die on.
Yes, we have a website form and that's where we prefer people to submit inquiries through. Yes. If somebody reaches out on Instagram and says, Hey, I really want to do my kitchen and pantry and laundry room. I would feel like a jerk if I sent them a message back and said, yes, please go to our website.
Melissa Klug: You need to fill out this form.
No.
Cabri Carpenter: you. No. You know what I do? Is I'm like, yeah, love to. When can we do the consult? 9 a. m. on Monday? Great. What's your home address? What's your phone number? What's your email? Do I then go fill out the form for them? Yes. But as an organizer, it's my job to make their life easier. Not the other way around.
They're not here for me. I'm here for them. They don't care
Melissa Klug: about your rules. Nope, they do not. They just don't. They just don't. There was someone that there was an organizer. This was a few years ago. I was just trying to get in touch with them. Literally just had to, I just had a quick message I needed to send them about something.
The only way to get in touch with them. The only way. Was their website form. Their information was nowhere else on their website. It was their website form. It had like 15 required questions, some of which were like paragraphs long. And that was the only way that you could even contact them to say something very simple.
So even though I just had a simple one sentence thing I needed to say to them, I still had to click on every single button because they were all required. And it drove me bananas because I'm still talking about it several years later. Don't do that to
Cabri Carpenter: people. That's whenever you do the period tab and then they have all these Blank non existent required answers.
Exactly.
Melissa Klug: Also, they probably got excited because they probably got an email that said website inquiry. And then I was the person that was like, Nope, I'm not actually a potential client. So just to, it just caused a lot of other problems, but yes, but over complicating things in general, keep it simple for yourself, for your potential clients or everyone.
I think people's patience. I know we've talked a lot about like things that have changed since COVID people have no patience anymore. Yep. They're just cranky. People are cranky. Just make things exceedingly simple for them. Just be like, I have it handled. I have it handled. I'm a very long term client who
she's traveling nonstop. And she asked me to do a couple things and I asked her a pretty simple follow up question and she texted, she goes, girl, I don't give a crap. And I was like, all right, message received, not asking any more questions. So just make it easy.
Cabri Carpenter: I love that. That's a good rule of thumb.
Melissa Klug: Where do you feel like organizers are going? If you had the crystal ball or the magic eight ball or whatever, what do you think what are we going to be talking about a year from now?
Cabri Carpenter: I definitely think you're onto something with the ADHD thing. I think that will be huge just as people continue to self diagnose or have resources to self diagnose or actually get diagnosed.
I also think we're going to see we have already seen the shift with luxury organizing and we've talked about how it's different from the organizers who were on hoarders 20 years ago. But I think we're going to see a, maybe like a, it's more attainable for average joes, you know? And I think some of that too comes down to just mindset of.
For me personally, I did not grow up in a home where we hired somebody to come clean our house. That was a big no. That was complete taboo. But for me, in this stage of life, in this stage of business, that is an easy 200 every three weeks that I am willing to pay. I think you're going to see that same shift with other people.
Maybe people that don't recognize the value that they can get from organizing, or maybe they have never been exposed to it, or it was maybe even taboo of somebody's going to come into your house and help you. Organize your underwear drawer those things are going to slowly be broken down over time and it's just going to become more normal to where it's oh, yep, hired an organizer, pantry looks great.
That also by becoming more attainable for other clients, you may see less of this glamorous Khloe Kardashian pantry. Which I was never a big fan of, if we're being like 1000 percent honest. I think it just needs to be functional. I think it needs to also look pretty, but it can't just be pretty and not functional.
I think we're going to get back to that is like. Things have to be super, super functional. They have to be easy to maintain. They have to be less stress on you. We're gonna get back to that and it's going to be a revolution through homes and through families of No, I don't care if it is absolutely glamorous and a million matching bins and a million matching canisters It works and it's simple and it's easy to maintain.
That's the core of where I think things are heading whether it's Organizers who work with clients on a DIY basis, or if they come in and work in their homes it's gonna become apparent.
Melissa Klug: I think too that it's going to, people are going, first of all, people are more comfortable hiring people to do things in your home, to your point.
I was awakened every Saturday by the vacuum at a very early hour and it was time to clean, right? Like that, but people now are very open to I'm going to hire a handyman just to hang my pictures. I'm going to hire a cleaning person. I'm going to hire and recognizing that there are services out there for so many things that they might have just done themselves.
And as you know, self care. Mental health concerns, all of those things. I do think that you are right that we are going to move away. And this is probably also because of the shift on Instagram of everything doesn't have to be perfect. And there are people like domestic blisters on, instagram and Tik Tok I love that woman so much and she just talks about, you know, struggle care, like how to basically the keep how to keep house while you're while your house is burning and all of those things that, we just want people to take better care of themselves.
And that means having functional systems, not gorgeous systems that are impossible to actually maintain.
Yes. I do think, too, that, there are a lot of people that are out there talking about, you know, they're, we don't know. We are not economists. I do think that there is a better than average chance that there will be, you just look at trends in economics, like there might be an economic slowdown.
There are a lot of things happening out there. In the markets, but what we're also always going to say is even in financial challenges, there are always going to be people that are still interested in hiring services, still interested in having people in their home, still interested in spending money where it makes sense for them.
I think that's something that we're going to continue to see as well.
Cabri Carpenter: I'm super glad you mentioned that because I think that can be a excuse. That we as business owners, not just organizers, but business owners fall to when maybe we don't have a record breaking month or things are slow. It's really easy to say politics, economy, you know, the water's green, whatever.
But that is our chance. And I will, again, another hill. I will, nobody hills. I will die there on like when it slows down and it will, cause it always does. Whether that is, you know, use a solo organizer, use a team, when things slow down, that is your chance. That is your breath to rest and recover if you have been going 90 miles an hour.
That is your chance to update systems, update handbooks, update training guides. That's your chance to maybe launch a digital product or some other sort of semi passive income. Those slow down times are needed and they're not a bad thing. And I just try to remind people that's your time also, too, to like.
But also plant the seeds, do the things that will get you more clients. Maybe not tomorrow, but a year from now or six months from now, or three months from now, do the things that you need to do to continue growing your business, but also enjoy the rest because it does not come often sometimes. And so when it does come, it's good to take it.
I also think God universe, he has a way of slowing us down if we do not slow down. And that has always happened to me of I will be pushing and pushing. And then I just get. Miserably ill. And I'm out for two weeks and that's him saying, sit down, calm down, chill out.
Melissa Klug: If you so the podcast that I did in January with Kim Snodgrass or early February, Kim Snodgrass, who, you know, I'm interviewing her every year in her business, and there is one that is, I called it safety corner because she had something dangerous happened to her on a job and she goes, I wanted to take December off.
And the universe gave me a reason to have December off. She was like, I wanted to take December off, but she slogged through it. She took a bunch of clients, and guess what? She didn't work in December because of a combination of things that happened to her. She's just take the month off.
That's what I wanted to do. I didn't listen to myself. And I got it anyway. So, yes, listen to yourself. But have you seen that reel? That is, it's actually one of my favorite things. It's someone who's man, I'm just really I'm exhausted. And then they're like, well, have you had enough water today?
No. Have you exercised? No. Have you slept? No. Have you eaten? Well, no. It's like this series of things. What could you be possibly doing that is contributing to this? That's one that I will say too, is when people say I'm slow, it's the slowest time I've ever had. When you start asking have you done this?
Have you done this? Have you done this? Have you done this? They're like, no, I haven't done any of those things. So we also have more time than we think we do. To be doing some of those things that we are just sitting here in a panic mode, which I understand, but you're in a panic mode. And so your body is not going Hey, there are some things I could do to help solve this problem.
Melissa Klug: Thanks for listening to the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast. I am Melissa, and I've had a great time here with you today.
If you want more information about us, you can find us online at proorganizerstudio.com.
Our Instagram is @proorganizerstudio. You can email me hello@proorganizerstudio.com.
And you can get our brand new free workshop called How Professional Organizers Can Get Clients Without Using Social Media at poroadmap.com. Thanks for joining us. Have an awesome day organizers.
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