"We Are Not All The Same!" - Getting Great Organizing Clients By Being The REAL You
“A lot of clients are looking for organizers who have had firsthand experience with hoarding, chronic disorganization, downsizing, relocating, therapy, recovery, blending families, aging parents, losing loved ones, being diagnosed late in life with ADHD or autism, even something like rebuilding after a fire or designing your own kitchen or closets.
This is what makes you unique and knowledgeable. Share with others what you have gone through, what you’ve learned along the way and find ways to set yourself apart from the rest of the pack.”
Sarah Brent of Practical Harmony in Illinois and Tidy Stock Photography is talking to us about something she (and I!) are equally passionate about. As she says, “We are not all the same!” Professional organizers are all very different and showing up as the REAL you when you talk about your business is super important.
This interview originally aired as an episode of the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast. If you would like to listen, You can click here or find us on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you love to listen to podcasts!
Meet Sarah Brent!
Melissa Klug: Okay. So Sarah has been on the podcast before, and she is one of our mentors and our Inspired Organizer program. So she spends every day, not only working with clients, but also working with organizing our wonderful organizing community and cheerleading and motivating and coaching and all of that stuff.
But I wanted to interview her because you made a post on our private coaching group. And I'm just going to read it because I think it's really important. And then I want to talk about it.
So, you said, “Clients need to hear about you and your uniqueness. They need to hear your story, why you do what you do, why you're different from other organizers. Not everybody wants to hire the type A minimalist organizer who's been organizing since they were in diapers.
A lot of clients are looking for organizers who have had firsthand experience with hoarding, chronic disorganization, downsizing, relocating, therapy, recovery, blending families, aging parents, losing loved ones, being diagnosed late in life with ADHD or autism, even something like rebuilding after a fire or designing your own kitchen or closets.
This is what makes you unique and knowledgeable. Share with others what you have gone through, what you've learned along the way and find ways to set yourself apart from the rest of the pack. Professional organizers are personal trainers for your home and closet. I, for one, would look for a personal trainer who's like me and has overcome some of the same struggles, so I know they know how to help me where I am.
But it doesn't just have to be struggles. People want to know what your interests and hobbies are, what your goals in life are, what you studied in school, even if it doesn't feel relevant to organizing.”
By the way, I know someone who's like a literal rocket scientist who also organizes, and it's really interesting.
Sarah Brent: Yeah it is.
Melissa Klug: You continue: “They really want to know who you are. They want to connect with you in some way before they invite you into their home. And this is a good one. The biggest takeaway if you love to organize garages and dirty spaces, then get out there and advertise that because so many organizers last week say they hate, say they hate organizing garages and it's a massive market that needs to be taken care of.”
So I just loved this entire thing and I want to talk to you about it.
Sarah Brent: So it was a little bit of a rant!
Melissa Klug: It wasn’t a rant at all! So tell me a little bit about what, what inspired what made you go I gotta, I gotta put this out here. Cause I agree with every word you said.
Sarah Brent: Yep. So I was sitting there probably on day two. So day one was just like half a day and day two is our full day.
And literally at the beginning of day two, I had already heard for the fifth or sixth time, Oh, it's a room full of type a ladies, a room full of moms. And I'm just like, can you stop putting us all in the same box? It just really was like, I'm not type a, I'm not a mom. I'm not connecting with that, but I'm, but I'm not denying that that is probably the majority of the ladies in the room right now.
So I was just sat there thinking if I'm feeling this way. As an organizer, there has to be so many people out there who want to hire us, but are just like, I don't want the ladies from the home edit. I don't want Marie Kondo. I don't want somebody who's just going to come in and boss me around and tell me you have to get rid of everything if you want to be happy.
And then I was just also thinking like my own. My own story and why I became an organizer. And I'm just like, well, hell that it's not even why I became an organizer. And I have just felt myself, I've been organizing for a little over nine years. And I've kind of always felt like I was like the odd person now, not like everybody else, because everybody always connected on that.
Oh my God, I've been organizing since I was a little kid and putting my blocks in a row. And I'm just like, yeah, my, my house. My room was a complete disaster. I have not been organizing since I was a kid. It took me until I was in my twenties until I really realized like, oh, if I want to be happy in my house and I got to start organizing crap. I was 42.
So there he is. And it's there's so, I mean, I do see some other similarities that I have with a lot of these ladies and organizers, but there are just some big things that stand out. And. I was just like, I feel like I do attract the clients that I want that are more laid back and don't want me to come in and just tell you like, this is how you're going to live in your house.
Cause that's just not how I work. I want to be more friendly and approachable. And we're building up a relationship, as we're working through everything in your house. And I just kept thinking like, we aren't talking about this enough because I feel like It is just expected of us to be type A.
It's expected of us to always have an organized home and always be super amazing organized people. And I just, I'm like, I need to start talking about that more. I have in the past, I've shared a little bit of my story with my audience, but I just, especially with Instagram, it's really hard when you start comparing yourself to everybody else and you're just like, well, dang, is there nobody out there like me?
And then you got to think, well, clients are thinking the same thing. Well, dang, is there nobody, there's not an organizer out there like me? I don't want a perfect person. I want somebody who was broken and figured it out and now they're helping other broken people. So that's where I was just like, I had a, about an eight hour drive home and I just kept thinking about it over and over again.
It's just Sarah, you got to stop being so quiet. Like you feel left out because you're kind of allowing just the type A personalities to take control of what people think organizers are. And I know there are so many people out there who aren't like that. And for example, one of the speakers she was saying like, she's not type a, she has ADHD.
She doesn't really like to read just like everything that was the opposite of what almost every single person up there was saying. And I heard so many organizers like, oh my gosh, yes, I connect with that. I connect with that. It's well, there's one lady at this event that is saying stuff that so many of us are connecting with.
What if we all just speaking up more and being like, I'm different. This is how I'm different. And I think that it's going to attract the ideal client for you and you're not going to be stuck with clients that just aren't, you know, they don't fit your vibe. And yeah, so I just kept thinking, you gotta, you gotta tell your story.
You gotta, I'm not just tell your story. Like you got to talk about you and either how you got here. Or like I said, what your interests are just like anything, because people aren't wanting to just bring strangers into their homes to go through all their stuff. So even if you don't have so many connections with them you don't all live the same way.
They’ll still be like, oh, wow, you're a real person. You told me your story. You're vulnerable. We want them to be so vulnerable with us. But sometimes we put up these facades and we're just like, we got to be vulnerable with them too, to show them that we're real people. And especially, we know what you're going through, if that's something that you've experienced.
Melissa Klug: So you've said so many things there that I want to get into. But, the hot take I have is, I suspect that most of the people in that room are also feeling like you are, well, I'm not perfect and I'm not this, you know, I might be, I might have some of these characteristics, right? But I'm not all of these.
I think everybody's probably feeling that way, but everybody feels like, well, I can't, I have to project an image. So I think we have this concept that we have to project this image and it's because of social media that we feel that way. But I would guarantee that the people on that stage are also, they're dealing with all these things too, but they have created something where they have to project an image.
And the, so the person that you're talking about that was like, I'm ADHD and I don't like books. And that was Rhea Safford. Right. Right. Right. And by the way, on her Instagram last week, she, this is a friend's reference for anybody who watched friends, but she goes, I have a Monica closet and she put on social media.
This is my office. I, I'm paraphrasing. So I'm probably not getting it as accurate, but she was like, it's kind of a mess and I’ve got to clean it up. And I'm a professional organizer and none of us are perfect. Right. And so. I think being vulnerable and telling people, I'm also not perfect because one of the top questions I get from people is, Oh, so your house is perfect.
No, my house isn't perfect. You want to know why? People live there.
Sarah Brent: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I guess my, my only, my only thing to you is I think lots of people probably felt the same way you did. Yeah. And that we're not all one size fits all. We're not all organized since birth. And even people who have been organized since birth, I would argue they have a story too.
Melissa Klug: So we all have got to be better about we are not all the same person and differentiate yourself.
Melissa + Sarah together at the How To: Summit in 2023
That's something I was thinking too. It's even if you have always been an organized kid or, you know, you just. the job naturally came to you. There is so more to a story. Like, why do you want to do that? Why do you want to help people? A lot of clients also love to know, like our brains are just different than theirs. It kind of gives them like, okay, so I'm not just a broken person. It's just no, actually you're not broken. We're usually the weird ones. We're the ones that like to go into strangers homes too and put things in order for right.
So it's there's always a story. And definitely social media plays such a big thing into this because we just sit there, we see everybody's highlight reels, like we see everybody's perfect spaces and then we're just like, dang I'm not like that you know, but like you said, just kind of showing your Monica closet, things like that, where I, something that I have been meaning to talk about more on my social media is, I finally, a couple years ago, broke down and hired a house cleaner.
And I was so ashamed of that forever. I did not do it for the longest time. So I'm just like, what are people going to think of me? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then it just came down to it honestly, it was for my mental health. Because I had no time and I had no energy and no interest in cleaning those spaces.
And it's also what's wrong with that? If I'm asking other people to bring me into their house for help. What's wrong with me saying, I also need help. I'm not perfect. And look at my house. It's all clean now, .
Melissa Klug: And if we are asking people to pay us a lot of money to come into their house and fix their problems, we have to be willing to be able to say, I also need some help.
And I guess what, I'm not a house cleaner, in fact, very poor at that . So I would like to find someone who's really good at it. It's like my client yesterday, we were in her basement and she had made it sound like this was. You know, some sort of like massive explosion had gone off and it was the worst nightmare that she'd ever seen in her entire life.
And I go downstairs and in my head, I'm like, oh, this will take me like three hours, whatever. And I was like, nope, we've got this handled. It's really no problem. She goes, I don't understand how you can see a path out of this. And I'm like, but that's my job in the same way, a house cleaner. I don't understand how house cleaners know what they need to do, but they're really good at it.
So why would I not have, why would I not support their small business and get something for myself in return? They're so good. They're so fast. Like it helps me in so many ways. I love coming home and seeing my kitchen like sparkly clean because I can never do that. I am so just, I'd rather not. So yeah, well, and I, so this is something that I talk about.
All the time when we're talking about business building and inspired organizer, and I feel it so, I feel it so deeply as you have got to tell people who you are, whatever that looks like, because it, it is such a personal service that we give to people, and they have to want it. To say, I want to spend time with you and this is a person, I'm not saying that you have to be best friends with me after we're done, but you have to want to spend time with me because we are going to be doing a lot of things in your house, even for someone like my client yesterday, I'm really pretty much doing all the work for her.
I still spent an hour with her yesterday, figuring out what she needed. We still chatted. We chatted about a lot of like pretty deep stuff and you showing your personality. Is really a big deal for clients hiring you 100 percent and I have more clients now that are wanting us to do the majority of the work while they're just gone.
But still, like you said, we are still talking at the beginning of the session, or we're texting all throughout the session. You know, we're texting afterwards, there's still a relationship there, even if you're not working with them one on one the whole time. And they're more than likely still picking you out because of you they're not just going to bring in some random person into their home.
I just can't stress this enough. Like we are literally going through people's underwear drawers, literally not a light decision for people to make. So the more you put out there of yourself, then the more they're going to feel comfortable connected, you know, something else I was thinking about the other day is.
Even if we're not talking to perspective leads on things like social media, if we're making connections with somebody else, if they're going to refer us, if I'm chatting with somebody about, I love hiking nearby and a lot of people are relocating here, they're like, wow, we're all these great hiking trails.
So I'm sharing that. They may not, might not hire me, but if they have a friend or a relative, you're just like, oh, I need help. I'm like, you know what? I got this great organizer I've been chatting with, like things like that. It just see, it might seem so small to you or just like a lot of people like social media.
I don't want to do that, but it is really an easy place to make connections and to find referrals from people. Absolutely.
Melissa Klug: We did a podcast a few months ago about being five mile famous in your community. And that's all about, and we have a couple of organizers in our group that have done very well being five mile famous where you're recommending things to people and you, whether that is a hiking trail or a plumber, you are really showing that you are the local expert.
And then that starts to get paid back the other direction as well.
Sarah Brent: Yeah. And I will say like for me, I pretty much have been born and raised in this area. You're an expert on this area. If you have lived anywhere and you pay attention to things and you keep track of things like, people's restaurants or new restaurants, other small businesses, anything like that, people are going to naturally gravitate to you and just be like, you know, I know you've lived here your whole life.
What would you recommend? So it's yeah, your conversations don't always have to be organizing related. To be able to make these connections, but it still is another way to make yourself stand out and seem more like a human being and not just a company, a business.
Melissa Klug: I also think that showing your personality, it's not just about, you know, hey, I'm going to be really XYZ when I come to your house, I'm going to be calm, or I'm going to be fun, or I'm going to be whatever.
It's really about showing that you are more than just organizing, too. Yeah. Yeah. We are whole people. And so whatever that story is, by the way, you might attract people because you are not a mom. And because you understand the hey, I understand that life can be really chaotic if you don't have kids, by the way, if you have clients that do have kids, it doesn't matter that you're not a mom because you have expertise to give them, it's just, but telling your story can connect you with people.
And by the way, whatever that story is. So if you were like Sarah and myself, trash pandas before you became professional organizers, freaking tell that story because I would tell you the number of people that love that I tell that story. On the flip side, there are probably people that are like, no, I really need someone who has been organized since birth.That's the person for me. Cool. I might not be the person for you. But telling those stories is going to connect you with your ideal client every time.
Sarah Brent: Yep. And that like really reminds me that I personally do not favor the clients that want me to come in and boss them around and tell them how to live their life.
I don't either. And I am okay that there are people out there, because I know there are organizers out there that love to do that. And they love to do that and that client needs that and that's like a match made in heaven and that's why I want to be able to tell more about me so these people know not necessarily to contact me because although we could work together and have great results I'm not going to be exactly what you're looking for and you might be more frustrated with that and it's like well your frustration is not going to make me change who I am and start bossing you around that's just not me I'm sorry.
Melissa Klug: Well, but I think that that leads into something though, and I know that this is a hard thing, I think, especially when you're a little newer, but I think it can plague all of us no matter how long we've been in it is trying to be everything to everyone. We often think well, if I tell people that I used to be messy or if I tell people I've been organized since birth, or if I tell people I'm going to, I'm going to alienate these people who are potential clients. We have this idea that 2000 people are out there searching for us and we have to say the exact right thing to get them in. You can't be everything to everyone. So you can't be the bossy organizer, but also the organizer who, you know, is just going to be live and let live.
You can't, you have to know who you are and that confidence and knowing who you are is going to attract people to you. Yeah.
Sarah Brent: And it might be trial and error to get to that point. I know I had some clients once I got in their home, they're just like, change my life completely. Tell me how to live my life.
And I'm like, ooh, like in the beginning you try, like you say, you try to be everything for everybody. And then you realize I can't, I don't want to, that's exhausting. They'd be more beneficial as somebody else. And there have been times where somebody has reached out and I just refer them to somebody else that I knew as a better connection.
Like we all want to pay the bills. We all want to make some money. But I am past the point of trying to stress myself out or bend myself backwards to try to fit what they need when I know what that's not me. I'd happily pass it off to somebody else and everybody will be happy. It's kind of like a win win win for everybody.
I don't care I'm passing on a client or money because you're opening the door, you're allowing other better clients and money to come your way.
Melissa Klug: Because you do need it to be a good relationship both directions. Yeah. Yeah. You, you need them to get what they need, but you also need to make sure that you are able to provide what they're looking for.
So I'm an organizer. I love give me psychology all day long. Give me your compulsive shoppers. Give me your people who cannot, you know, when I go to their house, everything we've done last time is undone. I want those people because that interests me. And creating change in people interests me, but what I just described to you might be your worst nightmare.
Cool. Know yourself. And know that that doesn't work for me and that is okay too. And then have a referral network of other organizers in your area that you can say, I have the perfect person for you. And that's exactly how you should frame it too. Like I never frame it as, I'm sorry, we can't do this for you.
It's always I have a connection with somebody else. They sound like they'd be amazing. This is what they say. Specialize in this is how they can help you. Like I never tried to make it anything negative because I have had clients who are much more sensitive or leads that are much more sensitive.
And they're just like, are you just trying to push me off? And I'm just like, I don't reassure them. No, I swear. Like you wanted specifically, this lady wanted a DIY plan. And at the time I was not offering it. I'm like, no, this has nothing to do with you. This is all me. This is not a service I offer.
Here is somebody who offers it. They're amazing. They have amazing rates. This would be a perfect connection for you guys.
Melissa Klug: I did it the other day. I had a client that, you know, just based on, she had sent me some photos and I had a great conversation with her, but just based on I go, I am, I know that I'm not the right person for her because she needs a team of people that can come in and handle this and I'm gonna be able to, I always say it's thrown a deck chair off the Titanic.
I'm gonna be thrown a deck chair off the Titanic versus someone that can come in with a team and really make meaningful change for her and. It's a hard conversation because you don't want the person to feel badly because they almost always go, oh, you don't want me. No, I would love to work with you, but I also like you enough from our one phone call to know I want to give you a solution that's better than the solution I can give you.
Sarah Brent: Yeah. It's such a level of respect. It's I respect you more than the check that you're gonna write me. I respect you as a person and what your needs actually are.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. Also, her house was really far away from mine. So she also needed someone, frankly, who was a lot closer to her than I am. Yeah.
Have you come to this realization recently? Because you've been organizing for a long time. Is this a realization that you've had recently? Or is it something that you're like, no, I've always known that I need to set myself apart?
Sarah Brent: Ugh, it's you know when you realize things, but you're just too scared to do it?
That's what it's been. Yeah. There, I do remember back in 2019, I had a friend approach me when I shared her my backstory about my life before an organizer. And she's I want to tell your story. And I was like, are you sure? I don't, I don't know about that. Like I was so fricking scared, but she basically said she had been looking for a project to do.
She loves making videos and she's seriously, I heard your story. You need to tell people this. And I just I didn't want to. I was so scared because I, like I said, I had to be vulnerable. I had these pictures from my room when I was a kid and it was just a disaster. And I've kept them because it's just, it's kind of like my inspiration.
But she's just you got to tell your story. So I did. And it felt so therapeutic. And honestly, I don't talk about it much because it still is just Oh, it's so scary and embarrassing. So there's like that level of it. I know I need to tell it and I have told it before, but I'm definitely.
I compare myself like any other human. I sit on social media and I compare myself to what I feel like is the majority. And I just feel like I feel shame and embarrassed. Oh, everybody only wants to hear from the people who are super organized and all of this. And that's what's entertaining for people and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just all this.
Like stories I tell myself that just basically keep me where I am and not move forward in any way. So it's the whole like I've known for a long time, but also I'm scared and I feel I felt like people won't want to hear it. People won't want to care, but that's just silly. Not just okay. Silly is a nice way to put it.
That's just stupid. Keep myself in this like tiny hole that I put myself in because I'm so scared. It’s just like such self sabotage and has prevented me from growing. And especially during the pandemic, like I mentioned to you, Melissa, I felt like I just got so quiet because these other voices on social media just got so loud, especially people who started their business during the pandemic.
Like it just seems so effortless for them. They're all so perfect. And I'm just like, Oh, I just, you know, I just got quiet. And I realized I, I'm kind of doing other people a disservice, whether it is. potential clients or other organizers. Like you mentioned, there are so many other people that feel this way, but we're kind of all a little scared or we're just not loud enough.
Melissa Klug: Well, and if we want to tell our stories to our clients, we have to tell them to each other.
Sarah Brent: Yeah. Yep.
Melissa Klug: We have to be vulnerable enough to tell them to each other and say, Hey, by the way, I know it looks like I have everything together, but I actually don't. Yeah. That's also all of us, by the way, all of us.
And, you know, we all have moments of, whether it's fear or doubt or shame or any of those other things all of us are going through something. And so sharing those stories with each other, so that we as organizers also don't feel alone. We don't want our potential clients to feel like, Oh, I'm the only person that doesn't have an organized house.
No girl. So many people don't have organized houses. And also, Hey, organizers, not all of us are out here living this most perfect life. We have stress about finding our next client and taking care of the client that we have. And how do I pick the right thing for this client? And how do I, all of the things we have, all of the questions.
And so being able to tell each other Oh, Hey, yeah, I totally am dealing with that too. That we all need a little bit more of that.
Sarah Brent: Definitely. When I was on my drive home from the summit, something that came to my mind. It was like people, whether they're other organizers or leads, people are going to get more from your struggles than your successes.
Totally. And I've always known that. I love hearing people's struggle stories because number one, it teaches me, oh, look out for that. That could happen. And then it teaches me how these people navigated it and managed it. And then what they actually did or tried to do to fix it. And that's what I want to hear.
So if I'm just thinking that for like business side of things, it's the same for like household side of things. Uh, her closet, I got a Monica closet. This is my struggle, but this is how I'm going to work through it. And here are some ideas and this is what I did. And this worked, this didn't work.
And it's that right there is a teachable moment. That right there is content. If you want to make it content, like it doesn't even have to be so like put together and stressful. Just show people the real you and talk through it. And that's where like the connections are made.
Melissa Klug: I think, so I've always used the phrase organizing porn to describe some of the, you know, like the home edit type pictures.
And by the way, I know that there are clients that want that. And I've said a million times, home edit isn't my jam in any way, shape or form. But if a client wants a home edit pantry, I'll give them a home edit pantry, right? And I have clients that are like, that's what I want. Cool. I can give that to you.
But I think that we have created this. We've created this deceptive vision of what a house is supposed to look like. And then we've also, to some degree, I think we start to create this deceptive view of, oh, like having an organizing business is I'm just killing it all the time.
And no. Every single one of us have struggles that we're dealing with and whether it's getting our shoes put away in our own houses or whether it's, I need to make sure that my funnel is all set. And that's why we want people to have a community to go to, to say, to be vulnerable and say, I'm struggling.
How do I, how do I work through this? Just like our clients come to us. Yeah,
Sarah Brent: I think that was a really big thing that I loved about going to the summit was finally meeting the community in person and the summit was the first event I've ever been to that is for professional organizers. Besides organizers who have worked with me in my city, I have not met another professional organizer, one that actually runs kind of like a full time business.
So it's just so nice to be in a room of people that are just like you. And like you said, you hear about struggles. One of the ladies who taught a workshop and talked about how her team is like over 20, 25 people, she said they were struggling this year. Like this year, just the sales were not as great as other years.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, so many of us are feeling this and we're like, what am I doing wrong? Why am I broken? Why is this me? But it's not once we start talking about these things, we realize the connections, then you start relieving yourself. Okay, it's not just me. Things are weird this year.
It's happening everywhere. It's happening to other states. It's happening to major organizing companies. It's happening to small organizing companies. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: So this is really, I think this is really important to I talked to someone afterward who what this is, this is all a part of every single thing we're talking about.
So she was saying, well, I'm not as successful. Or I'm not as good of an organizer because I don't have a team. Everybody has a team except for me. And I'm like, no, they don't, including me. So I was like, no, I think, I think that there is a misconception that, you know, whether it's different parts of your organizing business.
So if you are doing organizing as a side hustle, passion project, or part time, you know, you have a full time job and organizing is your part time job. You're not less of an entrepreneur than those of us who do it full time. We have different needs for our lives and, our businesses in the same way that me as a solo organizer, I'm not lesser than someone that has a team of 20 as someone that has a team of 20 has different challenges and problems than I do, but it doesn't mean that you are not running a business in the same way.
You're just running a different business. So I think that there's a ton of comparisonitis. Not just on social media of, you know, Oh, look at this project or whatever. I'm not doing that. Therefore, unless I think there's a lot of comparisonitis of, Oh, well, I, uh, I guess I really need a team. I don't want to do a team, but I guess I need one.
No, you don't. Yeah. Or if you want to build a team and you're a solo organizer, girl, go out and do it. Go build 20 people. There are so many ways to do this business. And we can't say there's a one size fits all because there simply isn't. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Brent: And your success lies in where you want your success to be.
If you don't want a team, because there's so much more you have to handle and navigate with that. Then you're successful without it. You're not a failed organizer. You're not any less than any of us. Cause a lot of us, I mean, having a team is not the greatest thing in the world for a lot of us.
A lot of us don't want to manage other people. So to compare yourself to somebody else who's completely on the opposite side of the end of you. You're just doing yourself a disservice, but we all do it too. Like I'm talking about from experience, I have had to, this is my, how I fix myself.
I unfollow or I mute the people that I compare myself to too much because it's just these people are amazing people. They have done nothing wrong. This is a me issue and either I'll work through this eventually, or I probably won't because you're just like where I want to be and that just drives me crazy.
Right. So like I'm speaking from experience, this is something it's comparison is like our kryptonite. It's just gonna kill us. It's gonna kill us.
Melissa Klug: And I guarantee the person you're comparing yourself to has all sorts of they're comparing themselves against someone else too.
So the person that you are using as your yardstick of I'm not good enough. I guarantee that they have someone else who are there like, well, I'm not as good as blah. And then that person has someone that they're not as good as we all do it. And it's, it's a recipe for, I don't know, driving ourselves crazy.
And I love the unfollow mute. It's not personal. It's just, this isn't good for me to be looking at. And I have had organizers that I have told flat out, please get off of social media. Entirely. Yeah. Or follow no one or whatever you need to do, but it's not healthy for you. And what I see is, and it's not just social media.
I don't mean to constantly like harp on social media, but it's the easiest place to see all of this. Whatever you are doing in your business that is preventing you, or it's creating these blocks. Get rid of the blocks in the same way that we would tell a client. Well, the first thing we need to do is get rid of all of your empty cardboard, like whatever you need to do to clear out that space, because I guarantee the more you are comparing yourself against someone, you're taking time away from building the business that you could have.
So an hour that you spend comparing yourself to this imaginary success of this person that you barely know is an hour that you could have spent. Working on your SEO or contacting prior clients or any of the other hundred things that we tell people to do.
Sarah Brent: Yep. And I feel like once you become more comfortable with who you are, and once you start sharing more of yourself, you do start comparing yourself less and less.
Or if you catch yourself comparing yourself again, like you're just like, well, why am I doing that? This person has a completely different personality than me. They have completely different values than me. I'm speaking from personal experience. There's somebody, there's a competitor in my area and we did not have a good beginning.
So I've always compared myself to her cause she just, but she's completely different. And I have referred other people to her. And it's just once you grow more and work through these things, you, the bitterness starts to go away. Cause why, like we've said, it's not about competition. There is so many of us and there are so many hundreds, thousands, millions of people in this world who need organizers. Like we can't be fighting each other or internally fighting each other. Like we just got to realize we're all different for a reason. Just there's a million restaurants out there. Not everybody wants McDonald's. Most people will never go to McDonald's.
But yeah something else I was going to say was social media. Although we have kind of harped on it a little bit because it's such it can easily be Instagram.
Sarah Brent: We're really, it can very easily be a toxic place for us. But also I have already felt the shift in me from the summit that it's that's not where I'm going to compare myself.
That's where I'm going to share who I am, which is what it's meant for. That's where I'm going to connect more with people and stop spending my time flipping through other people's stories and be like, Oh, I wish I had this. I wish I had that. And then just no, cut that crap, make your own stories, make your own posts, things like that.
It is one of the easiest and most beneficial places to connect with people because it's so casual. And I hear a lot of organizers say, well, I put stuff like that in the about me section of my website and I'm just like, no girl, right? Like the majority of people are not reading that it's great to have it, but it's kind of, I see it as your website is to be more professional.
You can obviously still put all that stuff, but you, when you want to be casual and connect with people, that's when you go to social media. And I feel like that also, to me, takes a lot of weight and pressure off of what social media should be. Because it's just post what you want. I still post what I want, but I make it branded with all my cute brand colors.
And you know, I keep it consistent how I want. But it's just that is the easiest and best place to connect and share your story, and be vulnerable, and meet people, and yeah. So If you put a lot of emphasis on your website about that, just kind of recycle that content, social media and expand more on it
Melissa Klug: Well, and I'm glad, I'm glad we're talking about this because we have really ripped on social media, but I do want to tell you after my, so my major takeaway, one of my major takeaways after I left the summit was I'm going to do more social media and this is where I'm going from is I realized there were a lot of people in that room that I had never met before.
Right? Some of whom I know from Inspired Organizers. So I like know them, but I met them in person, but some people I had never heard of before. I was in the airport waiting for my flight with three women that were at the summit that I had not met there. We had the best conversation and I ended up on a flight with one of them.
And we talked to the entire flight. I love her. Courtney shouting you out. But The point was, I was like, Oh my gosh, I have all these people, these lovely people that I have never met before and I want to connect with them more and social media is the easiest way to do that because that's, you know, Courtney lives in Tennessee.
I'm not going to Tennessee very often and she's not coming to Minnesota very often. So, that was my major takeaway, but I love what you're saying. Use it as a platform to show who you are. I'm not saying that you can't show the beautiful pictures of the spaces that you've done or, you know, give people that inspiration that they need.
But as an example, this is how I know how to be me. Right. Like I'm not saying it works for everyone. What I do is not going to work for Sarah and vice versa. But one of the, one of my social media posts is a card that I found once and said, I want my house to be tidy enough so that if someone drops by unexpectedly, it doesn't look like we're six days into battling a poltergeist.
Okay. That's what you're, that's the kind of content you're going to get on HomeBy11. Because that's me. I do want to be honest about Hey, I understand. It's hard to keep a house organized. Let me help you dial down the chaos a little bit and let me help give you some systems. That's what works for me.
And that's authentic to who I am. It wouldn't be authentic for me to all of a sudden be showing you a bunch of home edit pictures of a beautiful pantry. That's just not me.
Sarah Brent: That's so true because I realized something that people who follow me know is they know I love to be outside, but something that I don't think a lot of people know about me is I am a sentimental person when it comes to objects.
I keep mementos. I have keepsakes that are under my bed that I probably will never throw away, but it's like they're packed away. And I've had so many clients come to me and just am I allowed to keep this? And I'm like, what? Allowed? If you want to keep this, you can keep this. So I realized the other day once I got back from the trip, like I had all these things that I bought that somebody might think an organizer would never buy souvenirs or magnets for their fridge. I'm like, hell, that is a, that's a story right there. And I posted that and I had people thank me. Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to hear, which is okay.
If you like something and you want it in your home, like a professional organizer is telling you, yes, you can keep it. Keep that in your home. You don't have to throw it away because you haven't used it in five years. I'm so over that. It's such a gray area. It's not black or white. So it's just something as simple as that where it's kind of letting people know what some of your thoughts are about things.
I personally hate organizing books by color. That doesn't make sense to me. I love it when clients hire me to organize their library literally by category and author. That brings me so much joy. I wanted to be a librarian as a kid. So, that's my type of organizing. So, little things like that, where you don't necessarily have to be bashing on anything else.
You can just let people know hey, this is what I do. It's okay if you want this. It's okay if you want something else. But this is kind of who I am. And it's so casual. I just fricking took a picture and threw it up on the stories. That's there for 24 hours. And I made some more connections with people like, and I wasn't doing it with the goal of just, Oh, I'm trying to make connections.
It's with the kind of trying to normalize things, normalizing that I'm an organizer with stuff and you're allowed to have stuff too. And my home is organized with stuff and your home can be organized with stuff too. So little things like that.
Melissa Klug: I love the phrase normalize because I think that's what we're trying to get at here more than anything is normalizing that there are a lot of ways to do things, whether that's running an organizing business, whether that is what you're presenting to clients, whether it's how you're running your own life, all of those things, but it's the antithesis of the, you have to have everything perfect. And there are established rules for how to make everything perfect. And books are a great example. I'm very much a book person too. And there was a thing years ago because I am in the Marie Kondo universe. There was a quote that was misattributed to her where she says you should only have 30 books, I think, or something.
And she herself has said, I never said that. I don't know where that came from. But people have latched onto that as Marie's going to steal all my books. And she's no, I want you to keep every book that sparks joy for you. And same thing, like a client, whether it's, you know, tickets to football games or basketball games, something that we have in our house.
Tim keeps every ticket he's ever had to every event or whatever it is. Like none of us are trying to get rid of all of your stuff. We want to normalize that you can live in an organized home with whatever it is. Are there trade offs to that? Yeah. Sometimes. Cause sometimes you have clients who are like, but I love everything.
Yeah. We don't have time enough in this podcast to get into all of that, but this is what we're trying to say, normalizing that it is okay to feel X, Y, Z way, whether it's your client or whether it's you as an organizer.
Sarah Brent: Yeah. Yeah. And normalize being different. We're doing ourselves a disservice by being quiet because we think everybody's all the same and they're not.
It's just I think we're the quiet ones when you get loud. I don't have workshops.
Melissa Klug: I think loud is not a problem. I've never been accused of having an inside voice. Oh, yeah. We're talking about metaphorically loud though. Yeah. Have you ever had someone that has hired you? I have. I have had people that have hired me specifically because they cite something that I said whether it's on my website, you know, mostly on my website.
I'm pretty casual on my website in terms of the tone I take. Have you had that experience too?
Sarah Brent: Yeah, definitely. Cause on my website, even if they haven't seen the video, there's literally like one sentence that I grew up with my grandpa, who was a hoarder. And people love to hear that because they know I'm not afraid to be around clutter.
I knew how to navigate that. I, since I lived in it, like I'm not going to come into their home and judge them for what it looks like. And it's just like that little line right there. It just hits so many people. And also a lot of people. Do you contact us because it is a generational thing and they're just like, well, my parents were messy and my grandparents were messy.
And I'm just tired of that. So it's a whole, breaking the cycle thing. And that is, I think one thing that really hits with a lot of people.
Melissa Klug: There are things I've told the story before, but there are a couple of just random things that I've had on my website that people will occasionally reference.
And I'm talking, it's buried inside a story inside of another story and whatever, but. The right people are going to peruse all of that and they're going to hear what you say. And it might be just that one sentence that you just threw in there as an afterthought that is what connects with people.
And that is really, really important because you just never know what that little thing is that's going to connect you with people.
Sarah Brent: Another sentence is I used to be a nanny. And especially moms who need their household managed. They're like, she knows her shit. She has families in order, which is like where I feel like my love for helping other families really came from.
And that's something I don't have kids, but does not prevent clients that have a bunch of kids from reaching out. Like we have clients that have six plus kids and I love working with them all the same. I mean, your stuff is your stuff, but that doesn't discredit me from being able to help a mom with kids just because I don't have kids.
Melissa Klug: Absolutely does not. I actually had this conversation with someone I think I talked about on the podcast, but I had a conversation with someone in our inspired organizer group whose I am not a mom and I am about to have a mom client and I feel like I can't serve her and whatever. I was like, stuff is stuff.
And I was like, I am a mom, but I'm not a mom with little kids. And so I've had clients that, you know, if you have really, really little kids, that's not the stage of life I'm in. I have forgotten what it's like to have a little kid, right? It doesn't matter. You can help people at any stage. I go, uh, I have a client who's a 70 year old, a 70 plus year old man.
Am I not allowed to serve him? Cause I'm not a 70 plus year old? We are able to serve a lot of different clients. And I told this person, I go you not being a mom actually might be a big selling point. It actually might be better because you might have views. Whereas I'm like, Oh, well, my kids are little X, Y, Z.
Please don't pigeonhole yourself into I'm not this, therefore I can't help this person. I think it especially comes with the mom thing. And that's unfortunate. That's a whole other podcast, but like whatever you, wherever you are, you can help people in a lot of different stations of their life.
Sarah Brent: I have a very funny story that actually goes with that. A repeat client of mine called and she said, " I'm gonna have a baby. I'm like, congratulations. She asked, "Can you design my nursery and put everything on the registry for me? And I'm like, I mean, that sounds so much fun. So I did, and it was so much fun, but here I am.
I've never designed a nursery or fully put together a registry. She paid my rates. I loved it. She had us come in after her baby shower and put her whole nursery together. And it's just I don't think she thought twice about the fact that I'm not a mom. She just is a great organizer and knows her stuff.
I'm going to bring her in because I don't have time and I don't know how to do this. Right. And it was like, yeah. Just because you're not, this doesn't mean you can't help with that. Yeah.
Melissa Klug: This is completely off topic, but I want to talk about that a little bit. This is a big hot button for me is like, saying yes to things and figuring out how to do it later.
I love that you're just like, yeah, sure. I'll do that. Even though you'd never done it before.
Sarah Brent: And even though first off, I hope you got to go to the store with the actual scan gun. I did it online, but it's so going to the store with a scan gun is so I got to take her Pinterest, her like three Pinterest pictures and basically create everything for that.
And there was not a single thing that she did not want or disagreed with, with what I put out. And I'm like, I love it.
Melissa Klug: Oh yeah, that was so fun. You got paid to Pinterest and shop. Think about that for a minute, right? But the point I want to make is, and this is completely off the subject of everything else we're talking about, sort of, but is saying yes to things because you just never know what kind of direction it can take you in.
And there are a lot of different things you can do in organizing that aren't just, I'm going to decant some cereal into a container, like a lot of things.
Sarah Brent: And there are certain things that you get ideas about that people ask you to, you're just like, Oh no, no. And go with your gut on that.
But this one felt, it felt so like. What am I going to lose? If I put a couple hours into this and just be like, listen, I can't do this, but honestly I, I can't not online shop. That's so easy. So once I got started, I'm like, there's no, there's nothing wrong with this. So yeah, it's little things that you just might need to try.
Is there anything else that you took away from the summit that I think that caused you to think the most but is there anything else you took away that you want to talk about?
Sarah Brent: Your clients are not going to care about your followers. They're not going to care about the number of followers you have. If you have, I mean, you don't even have to have social media. So many people don't have social media, but if you have a well put together website, If it's informative, if you're approachable, you seem knowledgeable.
Clients want that. Not everybody is going to go to Instagram and just be like, Oh my gosh, this person has 20,000 followers. That's who I want to hire. A lot of people think that is intimidating to them anyways, or they might see how you use social media in clients homes and just be like, that's not for me.
So that's another big thing with comparison is just like the numbers and the metrics of social media. Just because it looks fancy to us, it's not always going to look fancy to them.
Melissa Klug: I love that. Mine was that community is really important and it's not just like a trait phrase. Yeah, you need to find whether it's one organizing bestie or a group of organizing besties, like you need people around you and seeing people in person was so great. Cause just not the same behind a screen, but finding people that you can connect with and that you can. So if you're afraid to be vulnerable on a bigger stage, that's fine. Find someone you can be vulnerable with on a smaller stage because you need to know that you're not alone in whatever.
And by the way, you also need someone to celebrate your successes with because we're women and I think a lot of times we don't want to shout from the rooftops of Hey, I just got, a 50 hour client or I just had my most, I just had my month that blew out all my other months or I had my first five figure month or whatever.
You've got to find people that you can celebrate things with too.
Sarah Brent: And the big one is in person, if you can find a community or people, friends, whatever, that you can eventually meet in person. Oh my God, it's so different. I was thinking nothing could get better from our inspired organizer group until I actually got to meet people in person.
Oh my gosh, this changes everything. Now I want to have meetups like this all the time. It's different talking to your friends or your partner's spouses about business things they can celebrate with you, but also I, I do not tell my husband about the things that sucks because then he gets really defensive and who's messing with you?
And I'm like, I just need somebody to vent with. I need a friend who gets it. So yeah, community like you said, not just the, Oh, you hear that all the time, community, community, but it's you really got to find people. That you can act with, that you can talk with, complain with. All of that.
Melissa Klug: I've said it before, but my husband is so patient and he's so kind and he will listen to any story that I have, even if it's like, if I have to explain like 200 extra things, he likes, at least pretends like he's not bored.
But it is different to be able to just go to someone I could go to Sarah right now and be like, you wouldn't believe what happened to me yesterday in this pan like spill it.
Melissa Klug: Oh, I had three bags of just expired spices yesterday. And she'd be like, Oh my gosh. Well, once I had four and my husband would be like, Oh, why did they have so many spices?
No, nevermind. They just don't get it. Let's never mind.
Melissa Klug: Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you being vulnerable and putting this out there because I think that you are probably what. You will probably find out that you are speaking for a lot of people, but I know that speaking up is really important and I appreciate it.
So, yeah,
Sarah Brent: It's hard. It's scary, but it's like our voice is one of our most powerful things. We got to use it. And like I've seen other people say, Oh, I just feel so out of place. I'm like, Oh, me too. But I've never said anything. So it's yeah, you just got to start strengthening numbers. We will overcome this.
That's right. We're power to us.
Melissa Klug: For sure. I do want to talk about, this is something totally different. And we've talked about it on the podcast before, but I want to remind people you have a side hustle to your organizing business. I mean, I, I don't, I like the phrase side hustle. I used passion project before.
And I liked that one too, but anyway, it's, it's a companion business. That's all it. Tidy stock. Can you tell us a little bit more about tidy stock? Because I love it. And I'm not just saying that because you're my friend and because you're on this podcast. I love it.
Sarah Brent: Well, that's so great to hear because you know, it did start off as a passion project and I was scared shitless to do it.
But basically a couple of years ago during the pandemic, I started creating stock photos for professional organizers because that's something I've always been like, where are the photos for us? You go and Google like organized closet and it gives you either a completely messy closet, which is not a good stock photo, or it gives you a closet that just looks so fake and AI generated.
Yeah. So yeah, during the pandemic, I have a really great friend who always took all my brand photography and I'm like, are you, would you be interested in doing stock photos? And her style is amazing and bright and airy and clean. I'm like, that's exactly what I'm looking for. So we teamed up and started tidy stock photography and we haven't done a shoot for probably over a year, but that's something that I want to change.
So that also like kind of refueled me going to the summit and be like, all right, this is a room of almost 300 organizers. I started making some stock photos for them. So, yeah, that's a big thing that I love that it just kind of like makes me so happy to know that. I'm providing something for people like me and other organizers, and I love getting the messages like, oh my God, these are amazing.
They're exactly what I've been looking for. I love the repeat customers. It just makes me so happy. And it's a different type of, I mean, it's, it's a sale rather than a service with professional organizing. So just kind of like fills my bucket in other ways that organizing wasn't filling my bucket and I'm working with more of my peers in that sense, providing something for them.
Melissa Klug: What I love is I'm seeing so many more people that are realizing that I have organizing and I love that. I have other passions that I am also looking at, you know, I have these other interesting things that I want to pursue that are organizing adjacent but that they're serving a need in the market and tidy stock definitely does.
So I buy them by the way. I'm a customer. I actually pay for them. And what I do is I will take a, I will take a package and then I will just create some content out of it. I have created blogs out of it. I've created a lot of stuff and it just, it helps at least for me, it's like a creativity starter.
So I'm able to take one of your photos and then say Oh, I can go talk about blah, blah, blah. And then I have content and I support another small business and they're beautiful photos and all the things.
Sarah Brent: So great. Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted. It's not just for your website, it's for social media or your blogs.
It's for fillers. It can work alongside with what you're already posted and they're not created to make it seem like this is your work and you're lying to your client. It's stock photos. You can tell it's a stock photo because it's curated and it's edited. It's clean. It's like sort of perfect, but it's not too perfect.
And yeah, I think some people don't realize how helpful they are for blog posts when you already have all the texts and you're just like, well, what do I do now? Just get a bundle and fill it with photos. And it takes your blog posts and all your marketing, just like this whole new level, having these clean crisp images, especially if they're all cohesive, like it kind of tells a little bit of a story.
Melissa Klug: Yeah, I used a package during but back to school time where I did a bunch of posts on back to school stuff. And it just, it made it so much easier because it just, it made me how to be less creative, I think is what I'm trying to say. Yeah.
Sarah Brent: It's really great when you have the ideas for what you want to say, but then you need a visual to go along with it.
And that's kind of how it works so much online is you kind of need a visual with what you're saying. Otherwise you're going to lose people's interest. You got to reel them in somehow.
Melissa Klug: Exactly. But yeah, so we're going to put the link in your profile because I do want people to go and see what you're doing.
And again, let's remind ourselves we can support other people's small businesses.
Sarah Brent: Oh, 100%. I love going to other organizers' websites and seeing what they have, especially if they have templates or anything. I'm like, purchase purchase. You make my life easier. And I know if it's an organizer, it's going to be done.
Right. For sure. You usually follow things through, see things through and make it look really, really good. So yeah, it's like a whole different level.
Melissa Klug: There's so much noise online with I mean, there are a billion things that you can buy online. And I would rather go to someone who knows exactly what my struggles are and exactly what, and by the way, you should be looking for that.
If you're listening to this podcast and you are looking for, whether it's a business coach or photos or templates or whatever, think about what is the actual expertise of the person that is trying to sell you this thing. And I'd rather have a professional organizer who knows what kind of photos I need or templates or coaching or anything else.
So that's my, that's my little plug of the day. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate all of your wisdom and insight, and our Inspired Organizers are lucky to be able to hear from you all the time. So thank you for that.
Sarah Brent: Thank you for having me again and allowing me to be a big part of the Inspired Organizer group.
And I've always said a million times I don't know where I would be without Pro Organizer Studio and Inspired Organizer and all of that. If you need teaching and you need community and you need direction and you need anything like honestly Pro Organizer Studio kind of gives it to you in some form or another.
Melissa Klug: I also do not know where I would be. Yeah. I mean, like we all need each other, right? And it's just, it's awesome, it's an awesome group of women. So we're lucky to be there.