Episode 93: Enneagram Types + Helping Clients with Clutter: Guest Laurie Palau

Laurie Palau is an organizer, business coach, author and Enneagram expert, and she's here today to talk about how understanding the Enneagram can help you better serve your clients--and your own business.

Laurie's new course on Enneagram & Clutter can help you and your clients understand more about themselves and how to improve their relationship with STUFF!

The Enneagram is a 4,000-year-old personality typology which categorizes people into 9 distinct types. Unlike traditional personality assessments, the Enneagram looks at your unconscious motivation rather than behavior. Laurie has studied this for years and has created a new course that examines how Enneagram can influence clients and our work with them.

LINKS FOR LISTENERS:

https://simplyborganized.com/enneagram-clutter-course/
Use code: POS20 for 20% off this course!

Laurie's website, Simply B Organized

Laurie's podcast This Organized Life

Enneagram test online: https://www.truity.com

Time Stamps:

06:00 Introduction to Enneagram
10:00 Types of clutter and relation to type
14:00 Empathy for clients
20:00 Description of Types and how they relate to organizing
44:00 How clients can use this information
46:00 Information on the Enneagram and Clutter Course

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If you are looking for business inspiration, we have a brand new free workshop that is called The 4-Part Plan for Landing Your Dream Clients in 2021. Jen Obermeier leads you through that workshop. Sign up for that poroadmap.com. If you are interested in our Inspired Organizer® program, you can find us at www.inspiredorganizer.com and don't forget, we have a whole library of podcasts here, our YouTube channel, and  you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Pro Organizer Studio.

Still not sure about starting your own Pro Organizing business? Cick here to read about the 5 things you need to know BEFORE starting your organizing business.

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That is all that we have for you today on this episode of the Pro Organizer Studio podcast, if you have not yet joined Jen Obermeier for our free workshop, your four-part plan for landing your dream clients in 2021, hop over to www.poroadmap.com and we will get you that workshop on demand. It's a great way to spend an hour of your time.

Thank you so much for listening in to the pro organizer studio podcast. If you'd like to get our roadmap for success as a pro organizer, head straight to www.poroadmap.com.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Hey pro organizers, it's your podcast co-host Melissa Klug. I am very excited about today's subject because it is one that I had never heard about before I started my organizing business. And now I think it's safe to say I'm a little obsessed with it. It is something that is going to help you and how you interact with your business, but it's also more importantly going to help you help your clients.

It is the Enneagram. If you do not know what I am talking about. Then this is the podcast for you. If you do know what I'm talking about, this is also the podcast for you. Our guest today is Laurie Palau. She has been on the podcast before, but today she's doing a super deep dive with us on Enneagram types and how that relates to people's relationship with clutter.

And we also talk about how it impacts your relationship with your business. I could not be more excited to have this conversation. Let's do a deep dive on the Enneagram.

Melissa Klug: I am so excited to talk to our guests today because it was around a year ago that she and I first were together on the Pro Organizer Studio podcast.

And I have sense thanks to her, become completely obsessed with the subject that she is going to be talking to us about today. So I just want to say hello and welcome to my guests, Laurie, 

Laurie Palau: how are you? I'm so excited to be back. I know, I love being back. It's so much fun. 

Melissa Klug: Well, you're a frequent podcast guest.

And so, and it's [00:02:00] because you always have amazing things to share with our audience. And I am so excited as always to talk to you about the thing that's kind of become, it's kind of your thing. I view this as it's your niche of the organizing world, which is Enneagram. 

Laurie Palau: Oh, thank you. I'm trying. Yeah. 

Melissa Klug: And, I was obsessed with our conversation a year ago and I, as I just told a friend of mine yesterday, and I am barely joking about this, I really think all of us should walk around with our Enneagram numbers, and just be like, I'm not just like one of those walking signs over your head that says I'm a nine, I'm a two, I'm a whatever, because it really, I think is transformative with how you look at yourself and how you look at other people. 

Laurie Palau: I, I agree. I agree. 

Melissa Klug: So I'm very happy that I have had you to teach me more about it.

And you have something that's just as cool going on for organizers that we're going to talk about. But before we do that, let's just get into a little bit of your story about, you know, life and organizing and your business and all sorts of other things.

Laurie Palau: Absolutely. So I'm Laurie and I have a company that I started 150 years ago called Simply B Organized.

I actually started in 2009 back in the day when there was no Instagram and Pinterest and I was just a busy mom with littles at the time. And. How to natural organizing, like so many of you guys out there, it was just like your kind of your gift. And you try to figure out a way that you are going to monetize it.

How can I make money doing something I'm good at? And that I enjoy. And it wasn't any more complicated than that. And over time, I started networking with people in my community, whether it was just, you know, people I knew at church or people that were in my kid's preschool or whatever it was, and just starting building my business.

And I really realized early on, and I'm sure all of your people can relate to this, that there just isn't a one size fits all approach. You have your style, right? You have your way that you approach it. You have whatever your method is [00:04:00] to go through the process, but it resonates differently with different people.

And I realized that from very early on. And so I started trying to articulate and develop some language around that so that I could really serve my clients. Well, because I knew that organizing for myself and the way that the world didn't organizing made sense to me, didn't always make sense to my clients.

So I had to adapt that. And really my first experience with that was at home with my kids, seeing the personality differences between my children, looking at how each one of them related to clutter or organization and everything from the physical clutter to time management and all of the things. And, anybody that has a parent that has multiple kids can relate to, like you do one thing for one, and it makes sense.

And the other one, you have to like jump through hoops and I found similar. Parallels with my clients. And so I started to develop a framework, looking at different types of clutter. So physical clutter, emotional clutter, calendar clutter, and that's been really in and of itself been transformational in the work that I do because it gives a jumping off point for my clients.

So as a professional organizer, if you don't have your thing, like your way to articulate, because I think so many people it's like directions, you know how to get there, but you don't necessarily know how to tell somebody else how to get there. And part of the gift of being a professional organizer is using that teaching skill, being able to flex that teaching skill.

And even though I'm not like a trained teacher to be able to. Walk people through the process so that they can then feel empowered to manage it and navigate it moving forward. Right. I think that's all of our goals. At least that was my goal. And so I developed this framework and I talked about it in my book.

I wrote a book and all the things, but that's been kind of like the forefront of [00:06:00] my, my brand. If you will, is talking about the why behind clutter, the why I was like to say, I play a psychologist on TV. I'm not a trained psychologist, but really looking at the psychology of clutter. And that's always been my fascinating starting point.

And then I was introduced to this crazy thing called the Enneagram. And I'll just give a very 10,000 foot overview for those of you who have never heard of it. It's a personality type biology. It's got many different layers. It dates back over 4,000 years, but.

Simplest form. There are nine core personality types. And when you look at it, the model, it's a circle with a bunch of crazy arrows and like hands on a clock from one to nine and each number or type represents a different type of a personality characteristic. And within the framework of the Enneagram, there's a little bit of each number in all of us.

However, everybody has one dominant type that we resonate. And what I love about the Enneagram, as opposed to some of the other personality type biologies that are out there. And I'm a junkie, I love Myers-Briggs and all of the different ones out there, like you, you know, give me a personality test and I'm all about it.

But what I love about the Enneagram is it talks about your motivation, not just your behavior. So appeals back the why. And so for me, that was my light bulb moment because I was so focused in when it came to my work about the why, like clutter being the symptom. Once we get to the, we, once we get to the root cause of where your clutter come from, that's how we can start to change our behavior.

Because if you're just treating the symptom, you're going to keep getting the same result. You're just going to keep, treat, taking a Tylenol for your headache as. And so I love the fact that the, any grim looked at motivation because that to me was the connection point. So I started doing my own like hypothesizing of, well, what if any grant type characteristics have to [00:08:00] do, is there potentially a through line to the work that I'm doing with clutter, specifically looking at physical clutter, emotional clutter and calendar clutter.

And that sent me down a three-year rabbit hole of research and all the things. 

Melissa Klug: I love everything that you just said. I could talk to you for hours about each individual thing that you just said, but I do love cause one of the things I tell my clients all the time is it's not the pile of stuff.

It's, what's under the pile of stuff and it's not that you have a pile of things on your, on your stairs. It's that, you know, there's something way deeper than that. Even about something that seems very simple and Enneagram absolutely uncovers. Why are we acting the way we're acting? Whether that is how we build our businesses, how we work with our clients, how we work with our spouses, how we treat our kids.

 It really gets to that underneath. Why am I doing this and that's why I'm totally into it too. I've taken every personality test.

There is, you know, for work or other things, any Enneagram gram to me, like it. So 

Laurie Palau: spectacularly well, and the other interesting thing about the Enneagram, and I think this is why, again, it blends so beautifully with the work that we do with clutter and organization, because let's be honest, people look at clutter as their dirty little secret, even though we're not coming out there judging them.

There's so much shame involved with clutter, whether they feel like they're not measuring up with their house or with their time or with their kids, or they're losing their temper or whatever. There's it's at the end of the day, there's this emotional component that clutter has over us. And that is why we can be such valuable resources for our clients because we can help them see the light at the end of the tunnel.

We can give them that roadmap. And so what I found is incorporating this basically looking at it as another tool in your toolbox. It's not, oh, well, if you know this, it's not a black and white. If you are an Enneagram three, that means that you [00:10:00] don't have clutter, or you only have this type of clutter.

It's not an either or, but it, but what I love about the work that I've put together is that it gives you scenarios and explains, like we all procrastinate. Yeah. But why we procrastinate is different? The reason why a one procrastinate is very different than the reason why a seven might procrastinate.

So just knowing that allows you to kind of read your client's mail because it looks at the worst part of you as well as the best part of you. And that's the thing about the. 

Melissa Klug: And I think to that to your point earlier about, like your kids are different. Every client is different.

And so figuring out ways of what method is going to work for them, or this thing that worked with client a is never going to work with client B and Y if you know, a little bit more about their personality, you're able to diagnose those problems much more quickly and give them a solution that works much more effectively versus trying to go through your Rolodex of 22 different things, too.

Laurie Palau: And for me, everyone's got the way that they run their business and their goals and their business. I see this all the time for me. I look at what I do as a relational business, not a transactional business. And that's very important to me. Yes, I'm in this, I'm, it's a business. I want to make money.

Of course I do. But building that relationship with the client and letting them really feel seen and heard and understood as opposed to that stereotypical image of somebody coming in there and just wiping all their stuff away and making a sterile environment. Like I want to show them, you can have what your version of an organized spaces, what your version is and doing it in a way that's serving you well, but [00:12:00] that takes time because we all come at light.

Present company included seeing the world through our own lens. Like, well, if the clutter stresses me out, it must stress you out. If that pile of paper stressing me out, it must stress you out. And that's why, you know, we say it has to be the pain point for the client. It has to be their painful, what they have to have that buy-in, they have to have that incentive.

But what's interesting is we all know that motivation isn't enough. They need to couple it with a strategy. I know. I know that I want to lose weight, or I know I want to be healthier. I know I want to do this, but if I don't have the plan, that's going to make sense. Wanting it isn't enough.

Right? So you have to have that want, you have to have the buy in, but then you need to balance that with the strategy. And that's what this does. And so I put it together really, for two reasons, I put this framework together for people as almost like the DIY self discovery. If you want to learn more about yourself, you want to learn more about how can I be a better version of myself?

Because like anything, I think we all have to start with ourselves before you can go out there and try to fix anybody else. You got to fix yourself, fix yourself. So I really truly designed it for people to start where they are. And then obviously it's been completely. Transformational in looking at how I relate with specifically my husband.

But then I was like, this could be a great asset for other people that are doing this because how I interact with my clients has completely, I want say it's completely changed.

That's a bit extreme, but I have had this. Epiphany of grace and empathy in my approach, when I work with clients now, understanding [00:14:00] how they see the world. 

Melissa Klug: I, and that I think is the most important point of maybe anything we'll talk about today is when you relate to a client, understanding them and being able to have that empathy of, oh, I understand why they haven't done their laundry in seven weeks and I'm going to help them get out of that. And that is absolutely going to make you so much more of a valuable part 

Laurie Palau: of their life.

 And from a business strategy perspective, That's how you retain clients. That's retention. The key to growth, in my opinion, I mean, listen, you know, everyone's got their different strategies for growing a business, but I don't constantly want to be drinking from a fire hose. I want to be building my people.

I want to be bringing in new people, but I want to retain and be able to serve the people. And I want those people that I've made such an impact on to be able to organically tell their friends, this, this like is worth every penny, this resource, this person, this, you know, whatever it is, this service is.

It's worth its weight in gold, because this has transformed so many areas of my life. 

Melissa Klug: It is truly a business tool and I had a percent, we're going to talk about it specifically, how it relates to organizing, but I will say I have been preaching from the mountain tops about this, to all of my friends in other businesses, even, people who have teams and people who like it really is so transformational with how you view other people.

And it has absolutely made me a more patient, more empathetic person to a lot of people in my 

Laurie Palau: life. Oh my gosh. And especially me, like I'm an Enneagram eight, which is known as the challenger. But like, I definitely have been able to step back, slow my role with other people because. Not everybody operates at the speed of Lori Palau, and [00:16:00] I have to recognize that. So, this has helped me to do it, and it also it's allowed me to set parameters from a business standpoint. Also, I just want to say one of the things because of the way that I look at a client, when I first meet with them.

And I kind of try to unpack, are they struggling predominantly with emotional clutter, predominantly with physical clutter and when, or calendar clutter. And when I see there's a client that has a strong emotional hold and that you could definitely see whether it's that guilt or that fear, or that really difficulty with parting with things that they need to really marinate through it, it has allowed me to build in more buffer time.

So when you're quoting a project from a business perspective, you can adequately. Quote, your people in a way that you're not trying to rush them. You're not trying to feel like, oh my God I'm racing a clock versus whatever you can explain it in a way that makes sense, because you want to allow them to lean into that, not as a crutch, but if somebody is struggling with that there, you want to be able to give them that margin.

You want to give them that space and knowing that they're not going to make as quick a decisions as somebody else that might just be like, get rid of it, toss it, get rid of, I don't want it. And then, so that same project, that same project with the same volume of stuff could take twice as long with one type versus another, just because of the process that they need to work through.

Right. 

Melissa Klug: For the client. The difference between a client who is, you know, a super fast decision-maker and the client that needs to tell you a story about every paperclip 

Laurie Palau: hundred. A hundred percent. Yeah. 

Melissa Klug: It was I and I I'm taking like a four second detour though. The other thing I would say, and I want to make sure that one of the things that I think is very valuable is to definitely know your own type, because it also influences how you run your own business.

So it's not just the business point of relating to clients, which is huge, but it's also, do you suffer from analysis paralysis and can't make a [00:18:00] decision about what picture to put up on Instagram, or do you know how to understand yourself and how to be able to overcome some of those blocks you might have in building your own 

Laurie Palau: business to absolutely.

That's it, it's so true. And knowing every number and I talk about this in the course, I call them your strengths and your struggles. And I look at the struggles cause every number has strains and every number has struggles. You can build them up. It's not like, oh, I'm destitute to not be successful because I struggle with this, you know, decision fatigue or whatever it is, or perfectionism or fill in the blank.

It just means that you need to be more intentional and you need to work that muscle a little bit harder, just like, yes. Just because organizing comes naturally to you. Does it mean somebody that's disorganized is immune from being, you know, living an organized life. They just have to work a little bit harder.

It's like somebody who's naturally athletic or naturally skinny doesn't mean that somebody else can't be, they just have to work a little bit harder. So knowing what guard rails you need to put in can help you in your business as well. As a expert to your 

Melissa Klug: clients and I have found that it helps you not only be able to overcome obstacles, but I find too it's enabled me to be able to set the right boundaries and that I need to, because different ones of us struggle with different things, I tend to be like, yes, I'll do that.

Even if it's extremely inconvenient to me, and then you create resentment and everything else. And so being able to know intimately like, oh, how do I set these boundaries with my business, with my clients, with other things. 

Laurie Palau: Absolutely.

Melissa Klug: Could you give us, I know, you could probably talk about each type for a very long time, and this is part of the reason you build the course, but can you give us like the cliffs notes of the different types?

Yeah, 

Laurie Palau: absolutely. So I'll go through them in chronological order. I'll give a quick overview. 

Type one known as the improver or the perfectionist and they are what you would think they argue with. Proverbial dirtier list [00:20:00] makers. They're very good with attention to detail. So these are some great things about your ones.

Where one struggle though is they have a big inner critic. So they are always there. Striving for perfection is self-inflicted it’s they are putting this unrealistic pressure. And a lot of times people will feel that way about themselves, or maybe they have a kid that's like that really has a perfectionist nature.

And what that can do is cause that, like you said, analysis paralysis, where they are failing to put up an Instagram post or put out a blog post or whatever, because they're looking for just that right thing. And as opposed to just that done is better than perfect motto. They really are constantly striving, so that can actually be a detractor from that moving the needle because they get so stuck in that street on realistic striving for perfection.

So as great as it is that they are really buttoned up. They have to learn how to have some space.

The type two type twos are known as your helpers. We love helpers who doesn't want to be a helper. Our helpers are. They are they, their worth is based on serving other people. Now I will also say in my experience I've seen professional organizers in most of the numbers.

There's a couple of numbers that I'm not saying that there aren't professional organizers. I just haven't met them. Okay. In my world, I know a lot of ones who are professional organizers. I know a lot of twos are professional organizers and it would both make sense because again, that list-making organized perspective is very perfectionistic from that one perspective and helpers, hello, that's what we do.

We help we serve where our twos run into big trouble is that they are always putting other people's needs before themselves. And because of that, Tend to run themselves ragged. They tend to [00:22:00] struggle with what I call calendar clutter, because they are saying yes to everybody and everything, and they're coming at it from a place of authenticity.

But at the end of the day, it winds up being counterproductive because they cannot always do the things that need to get done because they're so busy doing so many things. Yeah. That does that accurately set it up 

Melissa Klug: 100%? And I'll just say really quickly. Before Laurie and I started recording, I was talking about my obsession with TikTok.

It's like my favorite thing. It saved me from 2020 and TikTok has some really funny Enneagram content. And one of them I saw, which was like my favorite. It said Enneagram 2 gets kidnapped and it's a woman who is like, “Mr. Kidnapper. We've been driving for a while. Are you hungry? I have some granola bars in my bag. Are you sure? You're tired. Do you need to take a rest? Like I just want to make sure you're okay.” And I'm like, that is the most perfect encapsulation of me. Uh, like ever. 

Laurie Palau: So yes, I, oh my gosh. That is why I love Enneagram because you have to be able to find humor. Right. And again, it's all about finding humor in this, but using this, taking this knowledge and saying, what do I do with it?

And that's the takeaway. It's not to say, well, this is how I am. So, so be it it's about saying, okay, so I'm aware of this, but if I wouldn't be the best version of myself, either as a person, as a professional in my business as a parent, however, how can I, what strategies can I put into place? And that's kind of like what we cover in the course.

Three threes, threes. Our friend, Jennifer is a three. Yes. And so threes are known as the achiever. And I know a lot about threes because I have a lot of friends who are threes and my husband's a three.

So I know a lot about them. Threes are great. They are do, they are like derivative people. There are a lot of threes that are leadership positions. They are charismatic people. They are get it done people. They are the opposite of the ones in the sense where ones we'll have to go through every single step procedurally to get from point a to point Z.

Threes will find the shortest distance from a to Z and do it and we'll cut corners [00:24:00] to do it because they want to have the end result. They don't want to, they don't want to mince words. They don't want to mess around and they want to do it. So efficiency is very, very deep for the threes, which is great.

Cause they want to get stuff done. But three sets to get, watch out for a couple of things. Threes are very concerned about appearance. Not to be that they're always like self-centered selfish people, but appearance is very important to them. And perception is so a lot of times threes are, could be your clients that just shoves.

Like the, you know, in the closet, in the drawer, cause they don't want to see it, but they don't have a strategy. And so with three, so three mindful of is putting things away and doing things with intention rather than because they want to avoid the stress and anxiety of seeing the clutter. So a lot of times it's that immediate.

Thing of, I don't want to see it. I don't know what to do with it. I'm just going to shove it in a closet, shove it in that corner, shove it in this as opposed to taking the time to go. Okay. Let's think about where, what makes the most sense, where does this really need to live? And so I think that's really where threes have the capacity to be like really great, amazing, organized like human beings, but they have to almost like slow down a little bit and get a little bit more intentional 

Melissa Klug: because with organizing cutting corners does not lead to longterm success.

Laurie Palau: And when I say all the time to my clients, and if you guys want to like steal this feel free, but it's about to me, the whole purpose of organizing is the ease of retrieval. How quickly can I get it when I need it? What happens with a lot of times, again, not trying to pick on my threes, but a lot of times when you just do that knee jerk, I don't want to deal with it or I'll deal with it later, which is really a form of procrastination.

I'm going to shove it away out of sight, out of mind, when you go to retrieve it, when it really matters, you can't find it. And whether that's the papers, whether that's the school form, whether that's the, whatever it is, something in your pantry, whatever [00:26:00] it is, you just wouldn't, you just shove, there's no method.

So we want to just kind of slow down and become a little bit more intentional. Okay. Fours, fours are known as the romantic. Fours are your like super feeling. They feel everything. Everything's super like feeling twos or feely too, but in a different way, fours are your unique brooding, like artists, Uber creative type that you would stereotypically kind of picture.

And my daughter's a four and I know everything has to be. Yeah. So think about that. When you're trying to be clutter space, you want to talk about the people that need margin to gonna go through and tell a story and relive every memory. That's a four. So knowing that you need to kind of factor that in that, giving them that space, because if you try to force them into this, make a decision black and white, like I'm more of a black and white type person.

In my old age, I'm starting to have a little bit more gray, but, but might in my. Since I'm a black and white person, your fours are your shades of gray. Everything is like a spectrum for your forest. And so decision-making becomes hard. And you think about the process of organizing. It requires decision-making, what am I getting rid of?

Where am I putting it? How am I using it? A lot of decisions and fours are not great at making decisions about things, unless it's something that really matters to them. If it's something that's passionate to them, they will make a decision. But something that might be like mundane about where do I want my spices, or where do I want my files might not jazz them up, not the justice either, but that's really hard.

So again, understanding it and figuring out the strategy that will work with them to get them to do it is really. So 

Melissa Klug: an example for that, let me just ask you when you have someone who's a four and you're organizing with them. And like I have said before, my husband can find sentimentality in a CVS receipt.

 But if you're working with someone like that, where [00:28:00] everything really does have a feeling, then you might say, okay, if you are, if this item doesn't serve you anymore, we're going to find a really great place to donate this to. So you can feel good about it going someplace. Like you can add a story to it.

Is that kind of an example you would use

Laurie Palau: of an example you would use that that's absolutely. And I think also sometimes, and it depends on the person, right? There's not a cookie cutter thing. Sure. I know with my daughter, who's a four, who's now 18 and she's been drinking my Kool-Aid her whole life. We didn't learn that any agreement until she was already a teenager. Yeah. Before she left for college, we were going through a closet. I said, let's, let's do you know a purge of your closet? See what we're getting rid of what you're bringing to college, what's staying.

And we started going through it and you could see the overwhelm start to happen when she was going through it. And she said, mom, I need you to, I need you to be like, tough with me. I need you to tell me. You can only keep, because she may have like 12 flannel shirts. She's like, mom, I need you to give me a number.

Okay. So again, this is going to be individualistic for your clients, but I found with. She really having those, like giving them the boundaries because they don't intuitively put those boundaries on themselves. I love that. Give them space, but don't let them take a mile. No one to push back, give them a little bit of tough love.

 Because otherwise they can have a tendency to just prolong the process. So, that's when you have to kind of use your spidey sense to say, how far can I push? And when do I have to say, okay we need to set some parameters here. You can do it with love and grace. But also remember if you're working with a client, you're the authority, right?

They're there. So it's like the personal trainer where you don't really want to do more reps, but the personal trainers, like you're [00:30:00] doing it and I don't ever want to do it. Right. But in the end, that's what they're there for. As long as you're doing it. And you understand how. As the person that has that relationship, that trusted relationship, you should be able to gauge how far you can actually push before it's too much.

Okay. Great. Fives. Fives are known as the investigator or the observer. Okay. Fives. It's interesting. So fives love information, the very Headspace, where your fours are very like feeling emotion, fives or Headspace. And so everything is like analysis data. So the good thing about fives is you can be very practical with that.

The challenge where I see with a lot of fives is they'll hold onto things because they don't want to wait. I might need it some day and I'm going to have to go replace it. I might be able to fix this and use it for something else, even though I'm not using it for this. So they can rationalize holding onto things that they really don't need, or there's a pie in the sky chance that they will, that what if one time scenario?

 They're very logical people, right? So it's less emotion and more logic with Ben. And so giving them facts and data is really there. They don't want to waste time with a lot of things. The other thing is fives. Five sorta have a ton of energy.

So they are very, if you know that you're working with the five, you want to come in as an expert with a plan and know like, this is what we're going to accomplish and be very specific in what your goals are, what the steps you're going to take and what the end result is going to be, because they want to know step-by-step, what's expected of that.

Gotcha. And if you're a five and you're an organizer and I have not met, I'm not saying they're not out there. So any of you listening are fives and you're an organizer, please like comment on this, shoot me a DM. I would love to chat with you. If you're a five, you need to be really protective of your time because fives will hit a ball.

Like some [00:32:00] numbers on any Graham are Energizer bunny type of people. And by and large FI's are not those people. And so fives really need to be protective of their time. So if you are a business owner, you need to be very strategic and say, this is what I'm going to be with clients. This is what I'm going to do.

The administrative part of my business. This is what I'm gonna do my marketing, and really be intentional about how you are using your energy. Okay. Sixes are known as the loyalist there again. They're all great. I hate when I say these are great, cause they're all great. Sixes are your worst case scenario thinkers.

They're the people that need a lot of validation. So when you think about your clients, that really just need that permission to let something go. Those are your sexes. Not all of them again, not, but like sometimes you could really just be there going, keep her donate and then they're like donate and you're like, yep.

And it's just that permission gives that. The flood gates to take action. 

Melissa Klug: This one is if you're a new organizer please listen to this one too, because sometimes I think even whether a client is a six but even if they're not, sometimes this permission is a hundred percent, all your clients are looking for.

And you can just say it is okay for you to let go of this thing that still has a tag on it. It's okay. 

Laurie Palau: Yeah, exactly. The money's been spent. I say that yes. 

Melissa Klug: Literally saying it out loud to them sometimes and saying it is okay for you to not need this, any. 

Laurie Palau: Absolutely. Absolutely. But you're six is that, that's a big thing with them with that accountability.

And, if you've got organizers out there that maybe have also like DIY options or virtual things, your sixes as a client are probably not, the people are going to take you up on it. You're six. Those are the people that are really going to want that person sitting with them, sitting in it to go through it with you.

And it's just that extra [00:34:00] validation, that extra support, those are your sexist because they don't trust themselves as long as you can give them some validation and encouragement, that's really, really important for the sexist.

Okay. Sevens sevens are known as the enthusiast and they're exactly what you would think your sevens are. You're like let's do experiences. Let's go do things. There are spontaneous. They are not, they're the opposite of planners by and large. They just want, they don't want to be tied down. And your sevens can oftentimes look at, and this could also hold true for your forest too, is they can look at organization as restriction as handcuffs, what I have done.

And I'm sure your people have done this as well as try to reframe that language into looking at the purpose of doing organization and removing clutter is to give you freedom. It gives you that back. Yes. Correct. A S a seven's going to be like, what are you talking about? I'd rather be outside doing this.

I don't want to be inside taking care of, you know, decluttering a closet or whatever. And so they would rather be planning something for the future, then dealing with the day to day mundane. Sevens need to be careful in a couple of different areas. First of all, they oftentimes have a lot of different interests, a lot of different hobbies.

They might be like, oh my God, I'm going to get into beer making. And so they'll buy all this stuff. So a lot of times sevens will have stuff because they will have tried different things. And then it's like, it just accumulates over to so many clients who have done so many clients. Right. But then the other thing, yeah.

Sevens can also struggle with calendar clutter because they, as opposed to like having a boring weekend at home, which somebody like who's a homebody like me really likes sevens are like, no, I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go do that. And we all know at the end of the day, unless you're outsourcing somebody else to do it, getting organized requires some time you have to put in the work.

And so pinning [00:36:00] that seven down to actually do the work can be challenging. And so I talk about in the course, ways to, make it fun and set parameters and sevens are planners. So really craft in your approach to them as a way that the organizing of the decluttering is almost like the carrot that gets them to do what they want to do.

So that's kind of where a little bit about our seventh eights. As I mentioned, eight to the challengers, I can speak as much as I can speak about all the types, the best person to speak about a type of somebody who is that number and eights are known as a challenge. So, some I'll start with some of the good things about eights are very doing driven.

So we're very quick to decision makers by and large. We're not afraid of making mistake. You know, again, like we're, the ones are afraid to make the mistake. Eights are not, we're like, we'll fix it. If it, if we do something that doesn't work, we'll tweak it. You know, I was like that with my course. I was like, okay, I'm putting it out there.

And if it doesn't work, I'll fix it. Not the end of the world. Right. And I think that's a good thing because then HR tend to, they don't have an hall as much when it comes to organizing as some of the other types. But eights on the flip side, some of their struggles is we tend to barrel over people.

We are big in the room. We are just like big in the room, people with our mouths and with our presence. And so if you're an organizer, who's an eight, you have to be mindful. And this is something I've had to learn of toning that down a little bit to recognize that not every. Works at your speed. Yep. Not everybody processes things as quickly as you do.

And so that is something that is really important to be mindful of. I personally am not somebody that struggles with a lot of emotional clutter, but calendar clutter is something I struggle with because I do make decisions quickly. And I do have a lot of interests. I tend to say yes to a lot of things.

And so, although my motivation is different than yours as a two, I'm not doing it because I'm like, oh, I don't want you to not like me and I'll feel bad. I'm just like, well, yeah, I can do that. So [00:38:00] yes, I can do that. Yes. I can do that. And before I know it, I am, totally overbooked and just like wanting to pull my hair out.

So I think that's the thing is H just need to be aware of your anus. I call it, like, I make it like, be aware of your anus and just really simmer that down. So in 

Melissa Klug: your experience, I also don't think a lot of organizers are aids. Am I wrong about that? 

Laurie Palau: You know, it's funny. I. In my experience. I see a lot of organizers, as ones as twos and nine, I 

Melissa Klug: was going to say one, two and nine are the ones that, you know, I obviously don't know as much as you do, but that's the type that I see the most often.

Yeah. 

Laurie Palau: So let's talk about the nines for brand. I love the nines. And if you are somebody that's just taking a quiz a lot of times, when you kind of tend to determine your Enneagram type, there's a lot of similarities on the surface between Tuesday nights. So when you look at them they, they B they behave similarly.

So there's a lot of mistyping that often will happen between a two and a nine. My daughter's a nine and for a long time, she thought she was a two. And then it was like, once she really. Read up and like did a little bit more self discovery at what, again, going back to what that motivation is, not the behavior, but at the end of the day, when you're sitting in the quiet, what motivates you?

She resonated more with the nine than with the two. Okay. So again, I'm just kind of putting that out there, but you're known as your peacemakers. The beautiful thing about nines is they can see both sides to a situation, which is a wonderful thing. They have lots of empathy, knowledge of the people that somebody will come up to and tell them their whole life story and be like, I don't even know you why'd you tell me, but there was something about them that seemed like a safe space.

And that's a great quality for professional organizer because we all know that so much of what we do is therapy. 

Melissa Klug: There [00:40:00] are so many things in a very short period of time from 

Laurie Palau: people to be able to, to hold. Without judgment is a gift. Yes. So that is something that's really special with the Knights and people sense that it's nothing that you can put your finger on, but it's just, it's a feeling it's just there and you know it, and so it's, to me, that's like the super power of the nine, where nine struggled though is nine struggle with prioritizing because nines are just immeanable people by nature.

Nothing really stresses them out. I mean, sure. They get stressed out. I don't want to say like, they don't just, but like it'll all happen. So everything's sort of on an even playing field. So prioritizing, what should I do? I've got a list of 10 things to do, how to prioritize, what is most important versus what's right in front of me is the thing for the nine nines will tend to then sometimes overthink things or maybe start something and then move to something else.

It's like getting a little bit distracted, not necessarily like an ABD type thing, but just, oh, okay. Well, I started working on this and I guess I can move over here. So really. Being productive in your doing is the best way for me to say it is like saying we want to be real, intentional and productive about what we're doing and how we're spending our time.

And so that's the thing. And so I think it's really important for nines to make lists and execute. And sometimes nines could benefit from having an outside person to kind of bounce ideas off of whether that's a coach or an accountability partner. So obviously if you're, if you're a nine and you're a professional organizer, you're like I coached a bunch of nights that are professional organizers because, you know, it's, it's, the cobbler's kid has new shoes. They're great with their clients, but then they need help staying on task for themselves. And so that, that is, I think having that self-awareness of, [00:42:00] yes, I can hold space for other people and I can do it really well for somebody else.

But when it comes to my own oxygen mask, I need a little bit of help. Yeah. 

Melissa Klug: Well, and I think all of these, every single one of these types, it makes you realize like sometimes you can beat yourself up because you are a certain way. And you're like, why can't I be more like this person over here or whatever?

And you're like, no, this is just how it's how we were born. It's how we interact with the world. And like you said, there are good things and challenging things about each one of these types and we just need to embrace this is who I am. And so how do I, how do I work with it let's not say that there's something bad about me or about the way I am just figure out a way to work around it.

Laurie Palau: Absolutely. And so again, I, to me, it's all about having tools and strategies that I can use in my life, in my business, in my personal relationships, in my own self development, whatever it is. And that's really what. I put this out there to be as something that people could use. And of course I did it through the lens of club.

'cause that's my lane, you know, so I that's how I see it, but the beauty of it is you can take this information and apply it. Like I said, in all, all areas. 

Melissa Klug: Well, and I have taken the course that we're going to talk about in a second. So I have taken it and I find that it is so, so, so valuable to know, and really understand these types and to understand who your client is, because it helps you.

It helps you communicate with them. It helps you develop the relationships like you've been talking about. It helps you get them a result faster. And, and so understanding this in the lens how is it going to help my clients? And that's what we try to do here is give you tools that help your clients and understanding them at a deeper level is I think one of the biggest gifts you could give yourself.

Laurie Palau: Yeah. And the other thing I just want to say, cause some people might be thinking like, oh, You don't have to have your, your clients are, have to know their Enneagram type. Right? You can [00:44:00] have them, if you want to have them, if you want to talk Enneagram, if they know the anagram and if it comes up and you feel like you want to work it in and use that, like in a, like put it out there way you can.

But I've a lot of clients that don't know the Enneagram, but I know the probing questions to ask them. So I am not, it's not that I'm necessarily typing them and say, well, you're this, but I'm asking questions that I know have certain characteristics so that I can get a better holistic approach. So I could say, Hmm, this is how I think a load approach to this client based on the responses that they're giving me.

So we'll want to give you those tools. And again, you can put it out there and say, Hey, we're going to look to use any grammar language and use the word, but you can still use these practices without even bringing up the word Enneagram in your session. And that's. 

Melissa Klug: Super good point is that you can just do the study and do the work to understand this and quietly and spore silently use it in your business.

It does not have to be like, Hey, I'm an Enneagram based organizer. That's not what we're endorsing. We're just saying, use it as a tool to get your clients better. 

Laurie Palau: Yeah, 

Melissa Klug: absolutely. And then they're just going to think that you're 

Laurie Palau: magical. Well, yes, that's. Yeah, that's it. That's amazing. You want it? You want to be, you want to be like, how did you get.

Yes 

Melissa Klug: exactly. So I took your course and it has helped me so much, not only understand the different types, you know, not only understand myself a little bit better, but understand the types so that I can help my clients better. And I have also done some reading. So since I first learned about this, and since we first talked a year ago, I've done some reading.

Do you have some books that you recommend that people start with? Or how do you recommend people start like finding out 

Laurie Palau: their type, all that stuff? That's a great question. So there's a couple of different ways that you can do it. So for anybody that's like quick, I want to take a quiz. I wanted to find out I'm going to give you the link, but I've [00:46:00] always said I'm going to put my disclaimer out that I put out to everybody.

There's a huge margin for error because alive hundreds, we're answering a quiz based on our behavior or how we think we want to answer, but not really at the end of the day, through our core motivation. So you can take a quiz. There's a free quiz by Truity, which I use. I have a link to it. I mean, I recommend that to people if they want to pay there's paid ones as well, but usually most people, if they're like, I just want to take a quiz and try to find out.

But just go with an open mind that I would encourage you to still do some further investigation because it's the whole value that I think that you get out of the Enneagram is what you do with the information. It's great to say, oh, you're a two, I'm a two, I'm a six, I'm a whatever, like that's fun, coffee talk.

But if you really want to improve yourself, if you want to look at something as a tool for self-improvement, whether personally or professionally, it's what you do with that information. Okay. So now that I know this, so now what. That is where you know that the actual steps come in. So what I recommend my really my go-to for anyone that wants to learn the integrator, it should read the road back to you, which is the book.

That's the book that for me, was super transformational. I read a bunch of Enneagram books before and they were very academic and just were too over my head. The road back to you is a great introduction to the Enneagram. And what I love about it is before each chapter, they have almost like a checklist, like 10 things tend to scriptions for that particular type.

So essentially. Nine pages. Write a page for each time. I say, even if you don't want to read the whole book, read those things because you will quickly be able to rule them a bunch out. You'll be like, that's not me. That's not me. That's not me. That could be me. That could be B. Now some people [00:48:00] resonate.

Like I read the eights and I was like, that's me. My picture could be on there. But like I said, my daughter thought, oh, I could be a two, but I could be an on. So there's a couple that on the surface looks similar. And so then it's a probing a little bit deeper, but to get started, you'll immediately. Rule certain types out.

So that to me is the best way I would rather do the process of elimination of say, let me read about all nine types and let me determine which one. And then almost if you're going to do the quiz, do it as a backup to see if it validates it out. Yeah. And I, cause I did that just for fun. And I took the quiz and it did say I was at eight, you know, and I, my husband did, and it did say he was a three, but there are, I could see what certain types, how it would have some nuances.

So that's the best place for you to start if you want to learn about the Enneagram. And then the framework that I have that I put together. I broke it down into different modules. And so the first module really talks about it gives an introduction overview, but then it goes into understanding the different three types of clutter.

Because again, that's the connection point. So I gave a much deeper dive than what I did at the top of the episode, going into that. And that's great language in and of itself that you guys can use with your clients to just try to say, oh, I may be, I've had difficulty articulating that to a client. And like, there you go, take it and run.

And then talking. So we talk about clutter and then we talk about the Enneagram, which is a lot of what I covered here, but we go a little bit deeper. And then we look at this whole other spectrum that we didn't talk about here, which really has to do with three parts of us that re that are involved in the decision-making process for anything.

And that is what do we think. How do we feel and what are we going to do? And that applies to anything in our lives, filling and doing everything. [00:50:00] So even if I never used the word any gram, we all know that we ask ourselves, what do we think about something? What do we feel about it and what are we going to do about it?

And when you think about clutter and organization, we have all three of those that come into play at some point, and everybody has a dominant feeling or dominant center as it's called. And usually people will know what their go to is when somebody says something, what is the first thing you do? Do you think about it?

Do you act on it? Do you think about it? You feel it? What do you do? And so knowing where you naturally gravitate to and knowing which one you probably don't use as often is where the rubber meets the road, because that is saying, okay, so now we need. We need to build up a little bit here and maybe tone this part down.

And still, we kind of look at that regardless of your Enneagram type, just knowing who you are and knowing where, you know, what, what it's like using your senses. That's what I kind of liken it to, you know, not, they don't, they work collectively, you know, sometimes you might lean on your vision more than you're hearing, but they all intertwined and the same with thinking, feeling and doing.

And so giving this language and saying, okay, how can we incorporate this? That's where you really can start to see some results with your clients. And then it goes through each module in, we have a module that's dedicated to each type so that you can go through. And the one thing that I love about the Enneagram that I didn't say before, but I think it's worth mentioning is another thing that I love about it is it's fluid.

So it's not rigid. It's not like if you are. If you're an eight, this is how you act at all times in every eight acts like this it's fluid. We know we have good versions of ourselves and bad versions of ourselves. We have good days. We've got [00:52:00] bad days when we're stressed. We act like this when we are in really good, healthy Headspace, we act like that.

And so all of these connection points within the Enneagram is fluid, which is why I said there's a little bit of each number in each one of us, so let's go, okay, well, how can I build up on this part of me? And so learning, not just about your type, but about all the types is very informative and helpful because sometimes, we're picking up characteristics of a different type, right? Well, and I 

Melissa Klug: think too, if there are people that are sitting here going like, oh gosh, I have to, now I have to memorize these nine things. And I have to know what the, you know what, no, no, no. That's not the point. The point of this is just understanding all of these different types of people that exist in your business and being able, I think, to be just empathetic, to being open, to understanding there are different ways of learning.

There are different ways of doing. And if I learn about these things, even if I don't pinpoint this clients a six, this clients before it helps you understand how to interact with them, it is not about memorizing the night. No, it's 

Laurie Palau: not at all. And I give specific, I came up with questions and this was all done through data.

I did this huge focus group. I had like over 500 people. Some of them were professional organizers. Some of them were people that needed organization. I did this huge broad focus group, and I developed questions that specifically can be asked for different types and, and strategies that can apply for each types.

So if you are not sure if you're working with a client and you're like stumped, or you're like, I'm not sure how to get through with them. It's almost like a study guide that you can use to say, okay, here I have these questions. You can use this with these questions. And it's not saying you have to give them a quiz, but you can start to incorporate these questions when you're talking to them about asking them how they view certain things and leaving these open-ended questions to get them talking so [00:54:00] that you can better understand how.

Melissa Klug: Well, and I know there was a client that I worked with early in my career and she was, and this may sound to anybody listening live well. Yeah, of course. But I didn't know this in early in my organizing career. She's like, if I don't physically see it, it doesn't exist. And I didn't understand that because I'm not like that.

And so I remember what's in a bin, even if I don't see it. And so I had this light bulb moment of like now I ask clients, Hey, tell me a little bit more about D if does it not exist if it's in a box. So then maybe we need to use clear bins or is a bin not going to work for you at all? Or do you have to have 22 bins?

Like it's some of those kinds of things, learning some of those questions to ask, which shortcut so many other parts of the organizing process. 

Laurie Palau: Sometimes our clients, don't never even stop to really think about it and asking that question. Like, I know when I would help somebody with a closet and I would say, you know, I have this like closet checklist and it could be.

But I would, I have it as a print out, but I would talk, you know, I would, if I'm working with somebody, I would say, well, do you like to hang or do you like to fold? Do you like to have things in a cubby or do you like it hidden in a drawer? Do you like it behind the cabinet? Do you want to see it again? Do you want it in an acrylic bin or do you want to in a Wicker bin, so you don't see it, right.

So asking these questions gives you an insight into their behaviors and their habits and their practices. And you're 

Melissa Klug: right. Sometimes clients don't even know it. And so asking that question makes them have to think about, oh my gosh, that's a really good point. I have to see it. Otherwise I don't have the, like, those shoes have to be in a clear bin.

Otherwise they don't exist in my home. 

Laurie Palau: Yeah, I never want to see it. And the best thing I think is professional organizers that we can do because we're not, we're not mind readers. We are not necessarily like here to save the world. We might want to be. But I think it's about [00:56:00] asking questions, asking questions and so many people.

And I think this is especially true for new organizers and correct me if I'm wrong. I think we have this assumption that we have to come in there. And because we're the expert, we have to have all the answers to have all the answers immediately. Correct. That's just not the case the best way. Think about when you go to a doctor, they ask you lots of questions.

They do lots of exams before they can diagnose you and give you the solution that is going to make sense. So we have to be able to be that and asking questions is not a sign that you don't know what you're talking about, asking questions. Isn't assigned that you are. Not, you know, top of your field, it means that you care.

It means that you have an interest in what is going to matter to you my class. And so that I think is really important for anybody. I think we have not any gram, just ask questions for your clients. I learn about them. 

Melissa Klug: So, P people watching on YouTube will be able to see us the podcast won't, but I'm showing Lori, I have a thing on my desk that literally says it's a, it's a ceramic thing that says, ask more questions and I keep it on my desk because it is a reminder to me that whether it's an organizing client or whether it's someone that I'm coaching, in our inspired organizer group, asking questions to clarify things always leads you to a better answer rather than just going, boom, I have a solution for you.

It's this bin or it's you should just have a different website or whatever it is like asking those clarifying questions gets you a so much better answer, 

Laurie Palau: no matter what it is. 

Melissa Klug: Okay. No matter what it is so well, so tell me a little bit about the course itself and who it's designed for and all those good things.

Laurie Palau: Okay. So the course is really, it's, it's pretty simple. It goes through six core modules with lessons in between. I purposely broke them down into small manageable chunks so that if people want to go through them you know, you could, depending on what your bandwidth [00:58:00] is and what your style is, you could binge it all and do it all at once.

Or you could do a little bit each day or a little bit each week and just go through and kind of digest it. So it's very manageable. I really designed it as twofold. I designed it to be. A tool that somebody could use in their own life to help them understand themselves a little bit more through the lens of the Enneagram and specifically where their clutter struggles are.

So if some, somebody for yourself, you could do, you could use that for yourself. But I also designed it in mind for the professional organizer, because so much of my world is integrated between the business side of me, as well as, you know, the sh just the person side of me. And so I designed this as a, as a tool that other professional organizers could use in their business to be better versions of themselves for their clients, as well as to help understand their clients better.

So there's not like I didn't do it as a separate course, like it's the same course, but it can be applied. However you deem appropriate. And originally we had one masterclass that we did, like one super core course will with, that went through all nine types. And then I decided I would also break it down to mini courses as well, which basically covers all the same content at the beginning.

But then in the module that has each all nine types, it only has highlights one type. So you're just getting specific on one type. So it's a small learning, 

Melissa Klug: a lot about ones and 

Laurie Palau: how to handle ones. Yeah, correct. So, I mean, if you wanted to try with your number first and say, I like it, you can always add on my recommendation is if you are going to be looking at it as a professional organizer and look at it holistically for your business [01:00:00] to you to buy the, the whole course, because then it gives you.

Depth of each of the numbers, as opposed to just limiting yourself for one specific type. 

Melissa Klug: Well, the thing that I think is important to, you know, how some industries like doctors have continuous education, they have to go back, you know, even though they've gone to medical school for 7,000 years and all of that, they still have to go back and get additional training.

So that they're up to date. And this, I view as like a continuing education for organizers. Like you have to continue 

Laurie Palau: to hone your skills. Yes. Yeah. And it's interesting that you say that, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I was looking into that because I like, it's not a certified course, so let me just dispute that.

And I have like an FAQ sector, so it's not a certified course, but I was looking, and there are, if you are part of some sort of certain organizations do require you to have continued education learning and that this would qualify for that. So again, I don't offer. Like a certification. You're not like you don't graduate from it.

Right. But if you wanted to, it is six hours plus of content that could be counted towards continuing education. And that's a great point because I do think, you know, I'm constantly like going to conferences and reading leadership books and all different things to try to be. The best at my field or, you know, stay on top of things that are going to be important.

And this is something that I'm hoping can, can be that resource for people. 

Melissa Klug: I just think no matter how long you've been doing something, you know, and at this point I've worked for thousands of hours in client homes. And so I think you can get diluted into, like, I got it. I can do this.

And that's not. It's like, no, you have to keep up on your skills because there are always new things you can be learning. And this is, I think one of the biggest things you can use in your arsenal and the biggest thing you can use in your toolkit is to emotionally understand your clients, even for a client that is hiring you, because they're like, I just want an Instagram worthy pantry.[01:02:00] 

Guess what? That, and that client maybe doesn't want to get into the deep dark secrets of like why her pantry got messy in the first place. She doesn't want to do that, but you know what? It's still important to know for a client like that. They have underlying things they're dealing with too. And how do you understand whether it's the client that really wants to get into it or the client that just wants a prettier pantry?

All those people have something underlying that you can learn 

Laurie Palau: more about. Absolutely. I agree. 

Melissa Klug: I okay. So I, I know I've said a million times. I love Enneagram. I hope everyone else is going to become as interested in it as I am. You maybe don't have to be as interested in it as Lori is because she read it very deeply.

Laurie Palau: So I know I'm a little bit, I'm a little over the top. I want to get a shirt made that says I'm an eight. Sorry, not sorry. 

Melissa Klug: I want to, I could get a shirt that says I'm a two. How can I have. When 

Laurie Palau: you start for everyone, I love that we need to hold the merchandise. We could have a 

Melissa Klug: whole organizer merge category just for Enneagram, but so where can people, first of all, I will say in the show notes, we're going to link all of the things that we've talked about today.

Including the course, which we are, we have a special gift for pro organizer studio listeners. Let's talk about in a second, but we will link all of these resources so that you can start learning more and then make a decision about like, Hey, I'm ready to take the leap and really, really learn about this.

So, where can people find you in the internet universe, 

Laurie Palau: in the interwebs? So the best place is my website, which is simply the letter B like boy, organized.com simply be organized from there. You can have the book, the podcast, the courses, all the things. When you go to my website, right? Either on the home page and also at the top, just click on online courses and it'll take you right there.

Anybody and you, that's where the masterclass is as well as the mini courses. So you can choose your own adventure. If you decide that you want to purchase any of them, the special promo code [01:04:00] for you guys is P O S for pro organizer studio 20. So that'll give you 20% off P O S 24 pro organizer studio.

We're not putting an expiration so you guys can use this. So if you buy again, if you want to try small type, I know this is probably anti sales, but if you want to try one type and say, oh, I like this. I want to get another one you can add on. It's not like a one-time only thing you can use it. And the other thing that I really want to put out there because I am, so I really believe in this.

I really think this can bring value. If anybody that's still not sure or has additional questions hop on over into the contact page, like email me, I'm happy to hop on a call with you guys. I love professional organizers. I love helping you grow your businesses just as much as you do with your people.

Like, I love that. And if I can give you any additional perspective or answer any other questions that you don't feel that you got today, but you want to know before you invest in. Reach out to me, please do, because I would be happy to answer any questions. 

Melissa Klug: There is nothing that makes me happier than being able to give, women a tool to go start super, super great organizing businesses. And I know you feel that same way too. 

Laurie Palau: Jen and I bonded over that years ago and you're right there. So anything that I can do to support your community and help them be the best version for their businesses.

Like that's my jam. So, 

Melissa Klug: You also have a great podcast oh, pop over and take a listen to a podcast. So, 

Laurie Palau: and we need to have you on Melissa, Jen on I haven't had you on I, so I think, you know, we need to, we need to have you on, so yeah, that my podcast, thank you for the shout out. It's called this organized life.

And I would love it. We have a lot of professional organizers who listened to the show. We also showcase professional organizers. So if you're somebody that wants to like be on the other side of the podcast, like reach out to us on our contact page, you could say, if you're interested in podcasts opportunities, I'd love to learn about your businesses and see how we could also, you know, support you in.[01:06:00] 

Shed some light on your business. But yeah, we're going to, we've been around for awhile. You 

Melissa Klug: have, I, well, and that's, that's why I said it because you have, I think on Instagram today, it was like 264th episode or something. 

Laurie Palau: Yeah. It's like crazy. I just, we just put, I'm not sure when this is going to go live, so I'm not sure if it'll still be out or not, but we just put out a listener survey because we're going to be going into our sixth year and I'm like, I know, but I'm like, do you still want to hear from me?

I'm like, do you still want to hear my voice? And if so, what do you want to hear? So we just put out this listener survey. So if anybody's interested, like head on over, we would love for you to fill out our listener survey and like what kind of information you want to hear? 

Melissa Klug: Did you hear like an OG podcasts or you were like a podcast or before it was the thing to do?

Laurie Palau: I didn't even know what podcasting was. So it was like, you should start a pie and it wasn't like podcasting habit around, but somebody was like, you should start a podcast. Okay. Yeah, what's that? I don't understand. Ignorance was blessed because if I had realized how much work, if someone would have told me going in the amount of work and time and bandwidth I would have put in, I might have thought twice about it, but I love it.

It's actually one of the favorite things that I get to do because I get to talk to amazing people and we really approach it from a way that we look at. Like living an organized life in the tactical as well as more strategic, big picture stuff. So all the things that go into making an organized life, not just the bins and baskets, 

Melissa Klug: it's all, all sorts of things.

 Well, thank you so much and I can't wait for the next time we get to talk to you about who knows what, who knows what exciting thing we'll get to talk to you about next 

Laurie Palau: to oh no, it's, it'll be something funny. I think I have something fun and I think we need to do some live event. Oh my gosh. Yes. I don't know what your people that I I've been saying.

I've been saying that to Jen for years, I was like, we need to get together and do 

Melissa Klug: like, oh, heck yeah. That would actually, that would be really, really, 

Laurie Palau: really great. So just plant that seed out there, people. 

Melissa Klug: All right. I like it. 

 Okay. Thank you. [01:08:00] So, so, so much for sharing all of those things with us, I learned a ton more than I already knew from you. So that's always great to talk to. So thanks for 

Laurie Palau: coming with us. Thanks for having me. 

Thank you so much for listening into the Pro Organizer Studio podcast. If you'd like to get our roadmap for success as a pro organizer, head straight to www.poroadmap.com.