Podcast Episode 4: Getting Published as a Pro Organizer with Jennifer Ford Berry

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May 1

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Welcome to Podcast Episode 4: Getting Published as a Professional Organizer with Jennifer Ford Berry.

In this episode, I am joined by author and professional organizer, Jennifer Ford Berry. She's going to share her story and all kinds of tips on getting published as a professional organizer and what authoring books has done for her business. This is a super interesting interview, so I hope you enjoy!

What We Talk About:

(00:00) - Introduction to this episode
(00:53) - Introduction to guest Jennifer Ford Berry
(05:53) - How Jennifer’s first book (Organize Now) was born
(08:51) - How Jennifer took the leap of faith and balanced family and business
(11:07) - What Jennifer attributes the most growth happening for her business
(15:12) - Insights on how the book helped Jennifer gain credibility
(17:39) - What advice Jennifer has for building your professional organizing empire
(19:30) - What Jennifer’s next ideas and plans are for her business
(27:05) - The underlying reason your clients are unorganized
(33:29) - Hear Jennifer’s why for her professional organization business
(37:47) - Where to find Jennifer Ford Berry

Resources Mentioned:

Organize Now

Takeaways

Understanding your passion and God-given talents will never be a bad idea. It might be scary to follow after your dreams, but it's possible to earn a living doing what you LOVE, and Jennifer is the perfect example.

Full Transcript

Jen Obermeier:

Hey everybody, it's Jen Obermeier with Pro OrganizerStudio. I am so excited that you are here. I am interviewing Jennifer FordBerry today. I have been on Jennifer's podcast, which is really awesome. Shehas one called The 29 Minute Mom, and Jennifer has been an organizer for a lotlonger than me and she will tell us all about that story. Jennifer is theauthor of several books. In fact, a lot of the girls that were in our Facebookgroup or like I ... well here's an organizer I really recommend. I love herbook, I love this book. I'm like, "She's in our group," and they'relike, "Oh my God".

Jen Obermeier:

Jennifer is kind of sort of famous in that way, which isreally cool. And so I wanted to bring her on to this chat to talk a little bitabout what the process is for writing a book and what that does for yourbusiness. However, because Jennifer and I already know each other, you knowsomewhat more than that, I do definitely want to talk about some other topicstoday. And, if you guys have questions for her or me or whatever comes up, Iwould like to hopefully kind of go with the flow on that too. So Jennifer, whydon't you introduce yourself and a little bit about your business story and wewill listen to you.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Thanks for having me, Jen. I'm excited to be here and it'sbeen a very long journey, but a very exciting one. I have been doingprofessional organizing for 16 years now. Sixteen years ago I got laid off frommy job as an advertiser for a radio station because of 911, and I had just hadmy daughter, she was a baby and at first I thought, "Okay cool, you canpay me unemployment and I'll stay home and be a stay-at-home mom." Butprobably about two months into that I decided that I still loved business and Ilove marketing and I love creating things and using my brain. And I wasn't cutout to be a full time stay-at-home mom. So I started this little newsletter, Icreated a website and it was called Organize This Life and it was really bad.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I did it myself and it didn't ... nothing compared to whatwe want to see today, but I had this little newsletter called Weekly OrganizingTips and it was free, and I would literally, Jen, just give out a tip everyweek that people could do. And I realized after a year of doing that, that whatpeople wanted was simple, straightforward tips and they wanted me to tell themhow to get organized. And they didn't want to read through paragraph afterparagraph to figure it out. It's very similar to how I feel when I hired afinancial advisor or I hired a trainer. I don't want to learn all the in's andout's. I don't want time. I just want someone to tell me how to do it.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And if you're the expert, people are looking to you tojust forget all the fluff, just get to the point, so I think that's why theyliked the newsletter. What was funny is that ... Back up one second, why Ibecame a professional organizer when I had my little layoff time was because Ipicked up this book called Do What You Love and the Money Will Come. And backthen, and you and I have talked about this, I did not know any professionalorganizers. It wasn't a big industry. The two organizers that I could reallyplace names to was Julie Morgenstern and Peter Walsh, and other than that, Ididn't know anybody else doing this for a living. So, when I was reading thatbook, I kept trying to talk myself out of starting this business because Ithought, "How am I going to make money? Yeah, I would love it. I've lovedorganizing since I was five years old, but how am I going to make money?"

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And really, as I got through the book, and I had reallybeen going through a spiritual look at myself and say, "Am I the type ofperson that wants to do corporate America the rest of my life? Probably not,especially not as a mom." So I kind of decided, going through an answeringall these questions that really my true passion was organizing, and it hadalways been that way. This is literally how I was born. This is literally how Godcreated me. And this skill that I have isn't something that everybody else has.But at the time, I thought ... I didn't know that. This is just the way I was.And it's funny, because now I look back and I'm thinking, "Not every fiveyear old wants to clean their bedroom." Not every five year old asks theirgrandmother if they could organize her house every time they went there.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

So, I decided to say to myself, "This is my skillset.This is my passion, and if I am passionate about it, people are going to seethat and they're probably going to ... they might hire me." I started mybusiness in Charlotte. And what happened is ... the funny thing is-

Jen Obermeier:

You were living in Charlotte at the time?

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Yeah, I was living in Charlotte at the time. I had startedthis business, and then as my daughter started getting a little older, I hadthis real pull to go home back to New York. When I moved back to New York, itwas funny because it was kind of like ... organizing was kind of taking off inCharlotte, but back her in Buffalo people were like, "What's aprofessional organizer?" So, it was a little behind the times, and what Idecided to do is I decided to go back to corporate America so I could get asolid paycheck.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And then about a year and a half later, I had baby numbertwo, and I had had two miscarriages in between. So, when I had him, I didn'treally want to miss a moment, so I opened another business. I left my corporatejob and when there were no customers at my business, I would start writing myfirst book. I had this shop. It was a consignment shop. I had a baby. I had mygrandmother with me to help me with the baby, and I had a business going on.But when he was taking a nap and there were no customers, I was writing thisbook. So, there's no excuse not to get it done and if you really have a dreamof writing a book, trust me, you can get it done.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And what I had used is that Weekly Organizing Tipsnewsletter. I had saved all of that. I didn't know at the time that was goingto be the basis of my first book. The book was done, and what I did is I selfpublished it briefly, for maybe a year. And I kept track of all of the sales ona spreadsheet. And why, looking back, that was a super good idea, better than Ithought it was at the time just because when I went to publishers, I had proofthat this book would sell. We can go on and on about the publishing side of it,and so much has changed, but the biggest thing is, I think that still proves tobe true, that any publisher, they're being bombarded by authors every day, andthey don't want a huge risk.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And so it was less risky for them to see hey, I have acustomer base. I have people that want to buy a book like this. And so that'swhen the first book ended up starting, and once that first book becamepublished it gave me a much bigger platform. And then I got to do my dream. Igot to sell that business. People were no longer saying, "What exactly doyou do for a living?" And it took off from there.

Jen Obermeier:

That is amazing. Okay, so I have so many questions becauseon the one hand, it's like this was amazing for your business and then on theother hand, I'm thinking your personal life, you're still trying to balancehaving two young children and be the organizer. I want to ask you about both ofthose things, but first of all, how did you ... because I know so many peoplego through this where they're like, "I really want to start thisbusiness." Now you're saying 16 years ago you're trying to convinceyourself this is a thing and it's not just the silliest idea in the world. Andpeople are still going through that because it's just not a well known acceptedthing that people can and will pay money for.

Jen Obermeier:

How did you ... what were the things ... I know that somuch of what you do, your spiritual life is a big part of that, so I'm surethat plays into this answer, but how did you take that leap of faith of beingable to balance having ... I don't know if you had kids with, like you said,their grandmother or in preschool or a nanny, and going out and making thisbusiness happen. Were you doing that really all on your own? Did you have anassistant from the beginning? Tell me what that was like just in terms of yourtime.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Yeah, my time ... first of all, I will say this, that oneof my best ... and I didn't know all these things. I'm talking from 16 years ofexperience. Looking back at my younger self, the two little kids ... you knowone of the things I've really realized is that I made the most of my time. Ihate wasting time. I'm very efficient with my time, and so I ... and I alsolove a good hustle, so I work my tail off. None of anything you hear from metoday came to me easy. I literally work probably more than I should because Ilove what I do, and I feel like that's the hugest blessing in the world.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I mean, if you have to make a paycheck every single week,you might as well love what you're doing. That's a blessing, and it totally canhappen. I'm very grateful that I took that leap of faith, but yeah, with babiesand toddlers, my husband was even working out of town for five years, and hewould be gone four days and then he'd be home eight days, so that was all goingon when I was building by business and writing my books, and I balanced it soif I needed a babysitter I would keep it very small, like maybe two or threedays a week. I didn't put my kids in daycare. I had somebody come to my house.Like I said, I brought them to work with me when I had to.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I did what I had to do to make it work. I knew that once Istarted this business it wasn't going to come easy and I would have to put mynose to the ground and really hustle, and so I kind of just did it all inbetween. I would be with a client and then I'd have to go get my kids, and thenI'd be writing at night. It was kind of just like a juggling act, but as longas I put some effort into each part of it every single day, it got done. I finda lot of times women are always worried about what wasn't done by the end ofthe day compared to giving themselves credit for what is done, because that todo list is never going to end until you die, so get over it.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

It's just going to be there, so you do the best that youcan every single day. When you're done with that, you're like, "Okay,tomorrow's a new day." As long as you know you put your best effort in.But it wasn't easy. There was a lot ... my days were very, very busy. Verybusy.

Jen Obermeier:

I can imagine. I can imagine. Okay, so just in terms ofputting books out there as a marketing tool, and I don't know if you want tospeak to how ... you said when you first put out a website that it was justbad, or it was what it was. Did you kind of like evolve the website as the sametime as your books became more popular, and do you think that helped yourbusiness overall? What do you attribute some of the growth to?

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Well, I've changed my website. I've changed my logo ...I've lost track how many times. I'm going to change it again this year, becauseI'm going to go in a different direction. So yeah, it's totally evolved. So hasmarketing, so has social media, so has these tools that we have. I used to makemy website with FrontPage. Now we have Wix and things that are just move itaround with the click of a button. I was doing coding, so it was just anightmare. It's totally evolved. And the thing is, you asked if I had anassistant, I didn't have an assistant because I wanted to keep all theproceeds. I didn't have an assistant for maybe into the third book, and eventhen I had several different assistants because I would hire people that wouldbe gung ho to work for me and I would notice that they didn't have as strong ofa work ethic as I have myself or that I would like them to have.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And then it would just be like okay, by the time I'mholding your hand all day long, I could have done it myself. I mean, honestly.So it's been really hard as far as assistants go, and virtual assistants andthings like that, so you've got to be careful with that. The book thing and theorganizing business are literally like two separate businesses. They're thesame theme. They're the same information and one gives me a platform, sometimesI get speaking engagements from the organizing side and sometimes I getorganizing jobs from the book side. But if you want to get into writing books,just tell yourself right now you're going into another business. It's not thesame. It's completely different.

Jen Obermeier:

Talk to us more about that, then. Talk to us about whatthe reality is versus what we think it might be right now.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Whatever hours you're putting into your full-time organizingbusiness, you're going to put into that book, because it's all ... When I firststarted out, and it's funny because Peter Walsh ended up talking to me when Iwrote my first book and he's like, "Don't ever write a book for the money.Write a book because you have something to say that you want the world toknow." And don't even have it in your head how much money you're going tomake or how many books you're going to sell. You have to do it from your heartbecause you want your message to be out there in the world. That's the realreason to write a book.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

So, you're going to put your heart and soul into it. Andthen you're either let it just do whatever it does and be okay with that, oryou're going to pound the pavement with marketing and promoting, becauseespecially now you have to be your own publicist, your own marketing person,your own everything, because the publishers, when I started from now, do way,way less. Way less. But Peter was right. That first book was on fire because Ihad a story to tell. I had a message to tell and I really felt passionate aboutit. And it started out that they were doing a lot of promotion behind thescene, but again, and this is important to know, even if you go with atraditional publisher, you only get really one year of marketing.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

After that, you're on your own. They'll still put it inBarnes & Noble. Our bookstores are going away pretty much anyways, but whenI started there were a lot of stores and a lot of outlets. They'll do that foryou, and that's a perk, but you are going to be pushing your books all thetime. It's a tremendous amount of work, tremendous. Unless you just want to putit up on Amazon and let it ride. Depends what you're looking for. Anything youwant to do well, you have to put your heart and could into it and you have towork probably double of what you had in mind.

Jen Obermeier:

Okay, so just in terms of ... you said you moved to NewYork and people up there were not really educated on what the industry was evenabout. Do you feel like once you wrote that book that it just gave you acredibility, that people said, "Okay, I believe that she can do what shesays you can do," or did it at least help explain to them what thepossibilities were of using a professional organizer? The long answer, or theshort version of that question is did it help you get more clients, but alsodid it help you get clients who really understood what you were about?

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Absolutely, because ... first of all, it gave me aplatform. People will start ... it went from nothing to crazy because I was onradio shows all the time. I was being interviewed by bloggers. People wereputting me in magazines without me even reaching out. They were calling andsaying, "Hey, do you want to be in Better Homes & Gardens?," andorganizing magazines. It's just kind of funny how just putting a book out intothe world gives you this expert status, when really it kind of makes me laughbecause you're always evolving.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

It gave me a lot of business. It gave me a lot of coolopportunities. It made me money, so it was a bonus all the way around. Itdefinitely will tell people what you're more about. I've had people that said,"Oh, I can't believe that you're in my house and I'm hiring you because Ihad your book six years ago." But then on the other hand, there are peoplethat don't even know I wrote a book and I'm in their house organizing. So, itjust depends. I think that it gives you ... also when you're writing yourthoughts down, you're doing a lot of research and you're getting reallystraight in your mind how you organize and so that kind of helps yourself whenyou're out in the field too.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

It's hours and hours and days ... it's like basically youhave ... if you sign, you have one year to write your book, so you're going tobe doing a lot of work in a year. I think it really gets your thoughts straightof how you want to say the message, so that's just going to relay into how youspeak it to a client too. But by all means, it definitely helps your business.

Jen Obermeier:

Do you have any tips ... and then we can move on to someother topics that I know we want to talk about ... do you have any tips, likeif you ... I mean, I know you've been in our industry for a while, but also yousaid you've seen the book publishing industry change a lot. What advice wouldyou give to someone now who wanted to put that out there as part of buildingtheir empire and building that expert status kind of thing. If that was trulytheir goal, what would you recommend to them?

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I think I would honestly do it exactly how I did it,knowing what I know now. I would self-publish briefly. I would keep track. Iwould prove ... And you know, the thing now is you would have a mailing listand people would say, "Hey, I love this part about your book," or,"Hey, I hate this part about your book," and you could get feedback.And if you have a blog, you can write your blog post every day based on yourbook and kill two birds with one stone. You can multi-task that way. You canspeak your chapter you wrote last week into your podcast. You can be gettingyour name out there and making money now while you're writing a book behind thescenes.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I would self-publish. I would show that I was credible. Iwould go to publishers and I would lock one in. Not because it's the best andonly way, and we can get more into my story in a minute, but because there's nofaster way to get your name out around the world than to go to a publisher,because you as an individual do not have the resources that these publishershave in place. Bookstores are basically waiting, Amazon's basically waitingsaying, "Here, give me the next book." And that's all over the world.So me peddling my books around when I first started like I did had no ... therewas no comparison to handing it over to a publisher.

Jen Obermeier:

Let's move on to the next topic, which is what is next inJennifer's life and world, because I know she ... I'm always saying to peoplethe cool thing about having an organizing business is that it can change formsand you can take it with you no matter where you go, so I think that your storyof how it has evolved through the years is so fitting for that, but also willyou just tell us about what your next new ideas are and where you want to takeit and what you want to do with it and how you see it evolving for you?

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Sure, so basically one thing I wanted to mention earlieris that if you're an entrepreneur, I think the best way to look at yourbusiness is like a stool. It's not just one leg or it's not going to bebalanced, so what I have done is I've created different pockets of income,different stream of income so that you can ride out the ebb and flow of yourbusiness. It's funny because throughout the year, I might be more ... I haveother businesses, so I might be more focused on this business because of theseason and then I come back to this or that.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Or maybe I'm really focused on a book and I have to tellmy clients I can only take a few a week, or whatever the case may be. And thatkeeps it interesting, honestly. I'm a person that likes change, so I get boredif everything's the same all the time. I don't know if that's every organizer,maybe it is, but totally-

Jen Obermeier:

It's definitely me. I get bored very easily.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Yeah, and I like to create new ideas and I like to createnew challenges. It's interesting, though, because I think after years and yearsof doing this, I've realized that just being true to myself is the key, nottrying to be like somebody else. If you're starting your business, don't evenworry about what all of us other organizers are ... how we're branding ourselvesand what our message is, because you have to ... if you're not true to yourselfand you're not going with your unique skillset and how you relate to people,then it's not going to work anyways. People are going to see right throughthat.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And you also have to know what's driving you, and it can'tbe the money. It has to be an inner reason why you're organizing. For me, it'svery clear that why I do what I do is because I want everybody in the world tostop having a death grip on things, and I want to go against the grain of whatmarketing and society is telling us, that we have to accumulate and gather. AndI want them to be so free that they can go out and do their own passion andlive their own purpose, because there's nothing better. I can tell you that,like I said, I work a lot and I work like a dog but I love it. Everything I'vecreated I love working at because I know my why, and so that's the motivation.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

If you're just making yourself do this business becauseyou think you should, you'll never last. It has to be an inner drive, and sofor me, like I said, it's for people to free up. When I go in and work with aclient and their house is a disaster and they're like, "I don't even knowwhere to start. I'm overwhelmed," my excitement comes from I want to knowwhat their vision for their life is, not just for their kitchen. If you hadless things ... because every single thing we own takes up space, time, energyand money. I call is STEM. Everything, so you have to be very particular ofwhat you're allowing in your space because you're giving up those things, whatyou're allowing in your life.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

It's going to take away those resources that I can beusing to make an impact on the world. And so that's what excites me, when theystart going after the job they want to do, when they start losing weight, whenthey start getting out of debt, and they find love. All those things arebecause the clutter has now been moved out of the way.

Jen Obermeier:

I agree, yes.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

That's the most motivating part. So, what's next for me isreally being bold about my spirituality when it comes to getting organized, andreally learning how to organize God's way, because if you look through theBible, everything was written down for us. He spelled it out, and we're tryingto make up all these new fancy words and fancy slogans and fancy systems whenit's really all there. For me, I want to be bold about that and I want mymessage to be that life is about living, not about things.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Nobody's going to remember you for how many pairs of shoesyou owned. Nobody's going to remember you for how many square feet your housewas. They're going to know you for how you made an impact on their life, and ifyou're constantly shoveling clutter around, you're never going to get there. Ifyou're passionate about being an organizer, I'd say go for it and figure outwhat is your why and what's your spin on it because you're going to need that toconnect with people. I have a lot of things in the works, but you'll see thatkind of branding coming from me from here on out.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I'm going to tell you guys that those years and years ofhaving that publisher, as my brand evolved in a spiritual way, they reallytried to keep it quiet, because when a book is sold all over the world, you mayoffend somebody with Christianity. And so a lot of times they would say,"Well, why don't you not put so many of those Christian words in your books?"Or, "Let's take that scripture out." Even the last book, Think andLive Clutter Free, that was supposed to be Organize Now Your Body, Mind andSpirit, and they took out the word spirit. I felt like I started getting ...somebody else was running the show, and that didn't feel good.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I have recently parted ways with my publisher and I'm not,just for the first time in 11 years, in charge of how my books are distributed,where they're going and what they say. And not to say that if you pick up oneof my books, it wasn't me at all, but I wanted to be 100% and I can't be theorganizer for everybody, I can only be the way I want to be. So, that's whatI'm focusing on this year. We've also talked how I really want to start aconference this ... I don't know if it'll be 2018 but if if it's not 2018, it'sgoing to be 2019, just to bring more organizers together, organizers that wantto look at organizing as a lifestyle.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

People that want to apply organizing as a lifestyle, becausewe're really living in this time where Pinterest and shows on TV are making itseem like if you're not ... organizing's all about getting your home perfect.And it's not that at all. It's not even just about how you put your shoes onthe shelf in the closet. It's the whole entire lifestyle. I think that's reallyexciting.

Jen Obermeier:

It is, because you are definitely not alone. I know youknow that you're not alone, and being an organizer who sees the connection of... whether you call it your spiritual life or your mental energy or whateverit is in your heart and soul, that there is a for sure, for sure connectionbetween your stuff and what is going on with you. And again, whatever ... Iknow you have specific words that you want to use to describe that, but I knowthat a lot of other organizers out there feel that, and so I think that peoplewho ... I don't know if you've noticed, or maybe you can tell us what you'venoticed, when people first come to you, do they say, "I have a stuff problem,but it's more than just that." Do they know that, or did they come to seethat through your work together, that it's not just about the stuff that you'removing around? You know what I mean? I feel like people must know that on somelevel that it's not just-

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I think it's funny. I think it's like half and half. Somepeople do get it, and then the other ones don't get it all and it's like dayone, you're thinking, "Oh boy, I have a lot of work to do here." Idon't even know if they're ready for my message, because we're going to go waydeeper than this closet. And I know that before I go in. I can see thepotential in people. I can see the potential in space, so I already have in myhead where I want them to go. I've just got to get them on the bus with me. Andthat's sometimes pretty interesting because you don't know if they're going towant to do it.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

But I've ended up most ... I've had clients where I feellike I'm never going to get through to them, but there's this part of me thatfeels like I wouldn't be there if I'm not meant to get through to them. Andsometimes the ones that are the most lost are the most rewarding. There's goingto be your clients that you get and it's just a joy. Easy house, they'll let youdo whatever. You can buy whatever you need and they're just so happy you'rethere. And then there's the other ones that everything you do, they're going toquestion you and after a while you're like, "Are you the expert or amI?" It's going to be both.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I used to try to avoid that second client that was ... Iwas young and I was not as confident in my ability to help them. But now it'slike whoever God gives me this week as a new client, I'll take it and run withit because I'm not there to just make their house look perfect. I'm there toget them to the next level. And sometimes that takes several sweeps with thestuff. I call it sweeps. I'll know when I'm talking to someone and I'll thinkto myself, "This is going to be three sweeps before this girl getsit." Or, "This one's going to get it the first time," becausethey're just like, "I give up. I don't know what else to do. Helpme." And I usually just ask people, "How willing and ready are youfor a change? A serious, deep lifestyle change?" And I want them toanswer, because then it will tell me how it's going to go.

Jen Obermeier:

That is a great question. That is a great question, Iguess, to start with and help you filter where you need to steer each person.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes they don't even know. Theyjust know that they can't live the way they've been living. And the thing istoo, this is a morbid statement but I use it all the time. I was even speakingat a church Sunday and it was a pretty liberal, older group, which is thetoughest group to get to, because they've had parents from the Great Depressionera and that's a whole nother story and psychology. And I have to stand thereand say, "You came in the world empty-handed for a reason, and we'releaving empty-handed for a reason," and that really shakes some people upsometimes.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

We know it, but we don't stop and think about it, and wejust keep going through the motions. It's like no, we have one chance to get itright. I think also people don't even realize how good advertising andmarketing is to make you think that you need something. You have to be prettyintentional about fighting against those messages. I was in advertising. I knowhow to do that. You're trained to do it. It's just like with my clients,they're always like, "Well, what can I go and buy before you get here?What should I get?" They're so ready to spend. And every single time myanswer is exactly the same. Zero, nothing, nada. Do not bring another thing intoyour house.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

We're not even remotely close to that answer yet. I thinkthat's just the funny part about it is that people want to get organized withorganizing products, and it's like that might not even be the best product foryou. I will tell you this, Jen, I don't know if I told you this story beforebut this is a really perfect story of that point. I used to play volleyballevery Monday night, so my husband was flicking through the channels while I wasat volleyball and he cracked up because he was going through and there was thisepisode of Hoarders, and they were showing this lady buying my book, and it wasgreat publicity.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

She's going into Books-A-Million. She's going to theshelves and she picks up the book and she's holding it and they're filming it,and you're like 10 seconds, 20 seconds, okay how long will they show this, thiswill be awesome. And then she goes home, and you know what she was hoarding?She was hoarding containers and books. Now you know she never read my book.They showed her living room. Every single thing she owned was stacked fromfloor to ceiling in clear see-through plastic containers. The right organizingproduct, but she wasn't getting rid of anything. She was grabbing all of this stuff.She had a collection of things in containers and a collection of books. It justgoes to show you, buying an organizing book isn't going to get your organizedand buying organizing products isn't going to get you organized. It was funny.

Jen Obermeier:

That is hilarious. Well, hilarious but also so sad. It'slike yeah ... it's like a whole nother ... like I said, it's a whole nothertopic about why things are the way that they are. But I feel grateful that,like you said, God made some people like us, that we can be matched up withpeople who really, really need us and that it can be a fulfilling career, sothat's definitely a blessing and all of that. That is really exciting andyou'll definitely have to keep us posted on what and where you end up doingthis, or bringing people together.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Right now I'm looking at Charlotte. But I'm excitedbecause I think ... I'm in another industry and when we do our conferences itgives us all of a bond and it helps during the year, because it's not likewe're a teacher and we know all these other teachers that we can go to with ourquestions. We're pretty much a unique group, so that ... just like you havewith your group. People need that, and especially if they're starting out, theydon't want to pay the price that NAPO charges for conference. You can still gettogether, meet up, get ideas, get support. You don't have to spend $2000.00.So, I'm excited to do it. I definitely will let everybody know when I'm ready.

Jen Obermeier:

That sounds awesome. What is your ... I know you'vetouched on this some already, so it's not like we haven't talked about it butwhen it comes to you being able to do all the things and work as hard as youdo, I know a big part of it is having that really strong why, which Icompletely hear you, I completely agree with. But also what are the things thatare most important to you in terms of self care, so that you don't burn out,either physically or emotionally, on the many things that you have your handsin?

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I call it fuel. And everybody's different. I'll just goahead and tell you my fuel. My fuel is a morning with God. It's constantworship music in my car. It's podcasts if I'm working alone. A lot of myclients aren't even with me any more. I get them started. I'm very, veryparticular of what I let in my brain, in my ears and in front of my eyes. Asfar as my body goes, I get the same amount of sleep every night. I drinknothing but water, after my coffee, all day and I'm huge into holistic living.I feel like I wouldn't have the energy, and I know as my holistic approach getsstronger and stronger over maybe the last five years, that is giving ...Because I'm getting older and the thing is I also wonder, physically with thisjob ... First of all, how many days do you go to work and you're like, "Ijust worked out at work," because it's so physical.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

But I don't want to quit any time soon. I can't imaginenot doing this, and so I feel like it's important for us as organizers to takecare of our bodies and have that energy. Because if you start out your day andyou're drinking coffee and the next thing you know you're grabbing pop, it'slike your energy is going to tank by 2:00 when your day is not over. So, Ithink it's really important as far as making sure you have those veggies, thosefruits on hand, because you usually don't sit down, I know I don't, and take anhour lunch break. It's never going to happen.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Be nice, but I'm just not that person. I want to getthrough my day, so I always have things that I'm grabbing so that I don't waittil the end of the day and go home and I'm starving and I'm just throwingwhatever into my mouth. I read a lot. I love reading, and I also just like todo things, just to have fun. If you're an organizer, you like to plan, so I'mdefinitely the planner in my friend group. I'm the planner of vacations in myhome. I love traveling. I love doing anything that's an experience.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

I don't care about things, but I do care aboutrelationships and experienced. And I always laugh and say, "You can comein my house right now and if you wanted something, I can give it to you,because I'm really not attached to anything," but I'm super attached topeople and I love experiences. So it's like I'll get rid of stuff, but I liketo keep everybody in my life all the time, so it's a funny, interesting way oflooking at things. But yeah, I don't ... as far as the stuff goes, I could careless. Except for my books, that's my one weakness. I feel like I always have anew book I have to order on Amazon.

Jen Obermeier:

Yeah, those were all such good answers. Thank you so much.Thank you so much for sharing all those other ideas, because I think it isimportant in terms of long-term strategy to come up with things that you stillenjoy doing that support your core business but that are also helping you justget visibility and helping you grow your expertise in the world. Thank you somuch for everything you shared that is a part of that.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Absolutely. I think the cool thing about this professionis, like you said earlier in the beginning, you can take it anywhere you want.

Jen Obermeier:

Yeah.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

And that's something that is really unique to thebusiness. And obviously, like for me I'm planning on starting my business inFlorida soon because I know I want to end up back in Florida. All you need is aclient base. You don't need hundreds and hundreds of clients. No matter whattown you live in, big or small, focus on a small number and grow, because whatdo they say, 80% of your income comes from 20% of your clientele, somethinglike that. I feel like that's true for me.

Jen Obermeier:

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing all that. So valuablefor people who are starting out or somewhere in the middle of just growing andtrying to figure out what their next thing is, because you can still have anext thing even once you've decided to do this.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Yeah.

Jen Obermeier:

I think that's such an important message to have. Okay, sothank you so much and if people want to learn more about you, they can go toyour website or they can also listen to your podcasts because you have so manygreat tips and stuff. I know your podcast is The 29 Minute Mom, and then yourwebsite is ... is it jenniferfordberry.com?

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Yeah, yep.

Jen Obermeier:

Okay, I wasn't sure. Jenniferfordberry.com.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

It's easy to remember, and then I'm on Facebook under Author/OrganizerJennifer Ford Berry, and then Instagram is #organizenow, which is the name ofthe books.

Jen Obermeier:

Thank you so much, Jennifer, for doing this. It was sofun.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Thanks for having me, Jen.

Jen Obermeier:

Okay, talk to you soon, girl.

Jennifer Ford Berry:

Okay, bye-bye. [inaudible 00:38:01]

Jen Obermeier:

Bye-bye.

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