221 | Why Can't We Do NOTHING? With Kielyn Simonson of OrgaNice in Minnesota

May 5

Hey organizers! We are back with an episode about something that I am TERRIBLE at doing--which is...nothing. I am terrible at doing NOTHING. I always have to be busy, I always have to have something going on, and I always have to be in constant motion. My guest today is a friend who is wrestling with that same thing--Kielyn Simonson of OrgaNice in Minneapolis/St. Paul. This epsiode will help you know you're NOT alone in feeling this way!

You can listen here, read the full transcript below, or find us on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you love to listen to podcasts!

LINKS FOR LISTENERS

Get in touch with Melissa: CLICK HERE
Learn more about Kielyn, a professional organizer in Minneapolis & St. Paul, MN at OrgaNice: CLICK HERE
If you are interested in our Inspired Organizer® program, you can find us at www.inspiredorganizer.com and don't forget, we have a whole library of podcasts here, our YouTube channel, and you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Pro Organizer Studio.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Hey, pro organizers. It's your podcast host, Melissa. I know it's been a while. Listen, things have been crazy lately. I have had some huge, huge client projects I've been working on and all sorts of stuff going on in life and entrepreneurship and all the things, but here I am and I am thrilled to introduce you to one of my real life friends who also happens to be an organizer. And we are talking about something that, um, when I tell you when I'm recording this message to you will be hilarious.

So it is currently, as I look at my clock, 12:22 AM on Monday when this is going up and I'm recording the little opening to this. And, uh, the topic that I'm talking about with my friend Kielyn, is all about rest in our business and also why we feel like we constantly have to be in motion and doing things and not allowing ourselves to, to take some of that rest. So is this ironic? A hundred percent It is, but um, I am bringing my daughter home from college for just a quick, quick, quick trip to surprise her sister and her flight is delayed and she doesn't get home till two in the morning.

So I was like, well, I have two options. I can either go to sleep and I can wake up in the middle of the night, which will mess up my sleep for the whole night and, and make me groggy and all the things, or I can just stay up and I'm gonna try to get a bunch of work done. And that's what I chose. So it was an active choice but it is going to be pretty hilarious when you guys listen to what my conversation with Kielyn is. But that is the trade off and that is life. Sometimes it's, it's life as a mom and as an entrepreneur for sure. I am excited to introduce you to my friend. Kielyn Simonson of OrgaNice. She is here in Minnesota with me.

She actually lives right up the road from me. And I think that our conversation will make you feel less alone and we are all going through it and um, and entrepreneurship and in our lives, and I hope that you feel like you have a friend who understands you. That's what we are doing today. Thanks for listening.

Have a great day organizers.

Melissa Klug: All right. Let's do it. Let's do it. So I have a first time podcast Guest with me. My friend Kielyn is here. Hello. How are you? Hi. I'm so good. Thank you. You are a fellow Minneapolis based organizer. You are my actual real life friend and I'm just happy to have you on the podcast.

Thank you. Happy to be here. It's an honor. Well, we are going to get into, we're gonna do things a little backwards today. Usually I start with like, tell me about your business and all the things. But I want to jump into what we wanted to talk about, because this was your idea. It came out of a conversation that we had a while ago.

And I think it's a really important topic because I think that you and I cannot be the only people that have this problem. No. There's just no way. Do you remember our original conversation? Because I don't remember it, the context?

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. I mean we, it was over the holidays and, you know, I think this is an even, it's not even just professional organizers.

I think it's just. Women in general, but we were talking about how when it's slower in our business or when things are a little different or when we have holiday time or when we have any time that is not structured or planned for us, that there is this feeling of always needing to do something. Like there's always something to check off your list.

And it's especially hard for organizers and entrepreneurs because there legitimately is always something that we can, there is

Melissa Klug: always something to do.

Kielyn Simonson: Yes. So it's like this pressure constantly to be busy. And my husband does not suffer this affliction. It's

Oh, neither does mine. I get angry sometimes because I'll be like, why is he sitting on the couch?

And I'm like, oh, he's actually doing it right and I'm doing it wrong. Exactly. Exactly. And it's that busy brain that we have that makes it so there's always something. To be done. And I don't know the answer, so I'm coming on without an answer, but I just think it's worth acknowledging because I feel like we are we feel like there's something wrong with us.

And I do legitimately think there is, but it's like our culture and there's a thousand different reasons.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. It's all the things. And I think too that there is always the pressure that I think. First of all, I blame phones for everything, but I think it's a legitimate place to, to lay blame because I do think there, and I watch this in my family too, and your you have a daughter who is younger and I don't think you have this problem yet, but you will, like, I see it with my husband.

We joke, we jokingly call my husband an iPad kid because his, like head's buried in his phone and he is just looking at tiktoks of dogs, you know, but right. Like, and we'll say something to him and he will be like, huh. And we'll be like, Hey iPad kid, we've been talking to you for the last five minutes.

Right? Yeah. But then my kids too. It's like, we'll be watching a show together. The whole family will be like, let's watch blah, blah, blah, whatever. And then everybody sits on the couch and then my kids heads are buried in their phone and they're like half watching the show. They're half watching. Like, I think we just have developed this.

We constantly have to be multitasking.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. This divided culture thing,

Melissa Klug: it's divided attention and it like infects I think every part of our life.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah, absolutely. I actually was reading this book called How to Not Lose Your Shit On Your Kids or something to that. Oh, I love

Melissa Klug: that.

Kielyn Simonson: It's a great title for a book.

It's actually a really good book. But it was wild. I mean, it's not saying anything earth shattering, but the thing that. Got me was she was talking about that exact thing, that divided mentality and the need to always multitask. And she's like it, it raises your cortisol level. It makes it harder for you to actually finish the things that you're doing, and then you are much more likely to lose your shit.

Yeah. Because you cannot keep it together when you're trying to do all these different things. And so I realized that my propensity to get frustrated with my family is the evening time. And it's because I'm trying to make dinner. I'm talking to Aily, I'm trying to, my husband will call on his way home from work and I'm like, I can't talk right now.

I have nothing to say. I'm working on dinner. And so also you're on your way home. We can have this conversation when you get home. This is exactly what I say and I don't but yeah, so it's just. So when I started to say, okay, Aily, I will, I'm gonna do this, you do that, and then I'm gonna focus just on dinner for a minute and then we'll talk about, you know, instead of trying to be so productive that not only am I doing one thing, I'm doing four.

Yes. Poorly.

Melissa Klug: Yes. So one of my favorite quotes is from Parks and Recreation, which is one of my favorite shows. Cool. And yeah. And it's Ron Swanson saying like, don't half ass two things. You need to whole ass one thing. And I think about that all the time because I have always, like, and a lot of my friends have always praised me for like, oh my gosh, you're the best multitasker.

Like, I don't even know how you do it. Well, the age I'm at, I can't do it anymore. And it's actually messed with me a little bit. Yeah. Like I used to be able to do 12 things at once pretty effectively, and now I'm like, I don't even remember why I walked to the kitchen. Oh God, yes. Was it to make dinner? No, but I don't know what I was doing there.

And and that divided attention though, is I think it's affecting all of us. And as we age, we literally lose the capacity to do it. So we're actually doing a very bad job at all of the things.

Kielyn Simonson: Right, right. And, you know, as far as the component of rest and being okay with not being in constant motion, like organizing is cyclical.

We all know this. But I think the problem with being a business owner on Instagram is that you're also on Instagram seeing all the things that other people are doing. And we've talked about this, the echo chamber, or that

Melissa Klug: you think you're doing, or that you think that you're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: And so you're sitting there and you're like, okay, well my business is maybe a little slower this week.

I could use my day in a number of different ways. Like I, my husband's always like, enjoy your time. Go outside, go do something, blah, blah, blah. I can go walk the dog for a long time and go for a hike. Because that's productive to the dog too, right? Absolutely.

Melissa Klug: It's, yes,

Kielyn Simonson: I, so it's good for me, but it's good for him.

So I feel like it's a decent use of my time. Yeah. But in my head, like sitting down and reading a book is like not the right thing. I have a really hard time just sitting down and actually, even though that's like technically, I guess, productive. Yes. It's really pleasurable for me. But because there isn't that like feeling of being extra productive, I'm like, well, I should be doing my Google My Business and I should be doing my, and I technically should be doing my, you know what I mean?

There's always something, there's always something.

Melissa Klug: There's never going to be a time that you go, well, I've done it all. I've gotten to the end of the list. And I don't have, because like you said, there are always things that can be getting our attention. But I also find when I don't leave the right time for recharging that I burn out so completely that I go into what the internet calls functional freeze, where I can't do anything.

I can't even do the really important things that I need to do. Yeah. And it's, and we just leave the things that actually would restore us to the end of the list. And like weightlifting, for example. Yes. Like, there's a thousand different things on my list Yeah. That come before weightlifting, which is really the one thing I should be making sure I do every single day.

For sure. It's funny that you say that. So I joined a new gym recently and there have been so many days where I was like, okay, you have to go to the gym today. This gym provides, I think there are 10 different classes you can take throughout the day. Okay. Oh, there's options from 5:00 AM which is a hard pass for me.

Yeah. Me either 6:00 AM which is also pretty much a hard pass. But the rest of the day there are a lot of options for me to get there. And I'm excellent at making excuses. That's why I can't go to the gym. Right. But I'm like no. I have so much work to do. I have so much work to do. But I also will spend the 45 minutes that gym class was.

Doing useless things. Totally. And because I'm in that like freeze mode or whatever, uhhuh, so it's about the pleasure of the thing that you're doing. By the way, when I go to the gym, I love going to like same, I feel great. Right. But getting there, I can always find an excuse for like, well I should be working on, you know, fill in list.

Kielyn Simonson: Right, right. And you can always create more to add to your list. Like there's, if you wanna play that mental game, there's always gonna be something.

Melissa Klug: Yes.

Kielyn Simonson: Right. Which I'm quite good at. I'm like, you know what I need is a project. Yeah.

Melissa Klug: Like,

Kielyn Simonson: right, okay. Yeah. Because that free time is so terrifying. It's like, it's something I've talked about in therapy actually, is this like, need to always have something to do and to measure my worth and productivity.

And

Melissa Klug: yeah,

Kielyn Simonson: therapist was like, okay, I want you to do an exercise where you just sit with yourself and don't do anything else. Just sit with yourself for two minutes. Ask me how many times I've done that.

Melissa Klug: So I'll tell you, I'm guessing that'll be the longest two minutes, right? That's gonna make an hour at the gym look like a walk in the park.

'cause my guess is two minutes of doing nothing uhhuh probably really hard.

Kielyn Simonson: Yes, it's really hard.

Melissa Klug: But I think it's a thing that we can practice, right? Like, I'm not good at being like silent or like, I always have my headphones in. Like my client, I'm at a client right now and the other day she, the homeowner was like, do you have two sets of AirPods?

I go, I sure do. And she's like. Why? And I'm like, well, you know, it's like a charging thing. And so like if I, if one battery runs dead, then I have the other ones ready to go. And you could tell that she was like okay. And I'm like, I always have to have something in my ears. Like I always, I'm always listening to a podcast or an audio book or a whatever, like I Right.

Stimulation hard for me to uhhuh just be alone with my thoughts.

Kielyn Simonson: It really is. It's scary. And like, I was in Sedona last week and it was like, that's a restful place. It's beautiful.

Melissa Klug: Sedona. If you guys listen, if you've never been to Sedona, Arizona, please go. It's lovely.

Kielyn Simonson: It's literally a spiritual place. It is so beautiful.

And in the Red Rocks there's a ton of hiking. And if you're a hiking person, it's so good. And there was, so we would

Melissa Klug: go, even if you're not a hiking person, go hiking there. 'cause it will make you so happy.

Kielyn Simonson: It's just so beautiful. And so we would go on hikes in the morning and then one day I wanted to go to the pool, so my husband offered to take her to the pool while I went for a hike.

'cause there were trail heads that were like a half mile from our everywhere Yeah. Motel. It was so great. And so I go on this on this hike and Charlie said, don't bring your AirPods. Just don't bring your AirPods. Just be, and you know, you can just, you need to hear the nature. It's part of the experience, blah.

Right. I could not leave them home.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. And you're like, don't tell me what to do.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. I was like, but what if I, but I have things. I have things to listen to. Yeah. And I would turn it off. For like two minutes. Yeah. And I'm like, ah, I gotta turn it back. What is that?

Melissa Klug: It feels bad. It real like, like it's an anxiety thing of, it feels weird not to have that and that is actually distressing.

Yes, it is. Both of us. Because I think you and I are both like fairly well adjusted human beings. Right, right. And functional and all the things. And that's why I know it can't just be both of us. Right? No. Like it, it's so much more. And that being alone and just because I think it goes back to what we started talking about, which is.

You always feel like you are supposed to be doing something like the hike is the something. Right? Right. But for some reason we don't think that is enough. Yeah. You should probably be listening to a business podcast while you do that hike. Exactly. I did have that exercise in. And you also need to make sure that you're doing X, Y, and z

Kielyn Simonson: Right.

For your business.

Melissa Klug: Right.

Kielyn Simonson: And professional organizers tend to be pretty perfectionistic because we're making our clients' houses as perfect as we can. You know, that's like in the job description. And so I feel like it's, it even, it lends our personalities a little bit more to that trouble of not, and you know, and as a business owner there, since there is always something to be doing, there's always that guilt trip of like, am I doing a disservice to my business by not constantly being.

Active.

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: Am I just gonna fail? Which is like that that feeling of that fear of failure is like a really legit thing. Yeah.

Melissa Klug: And I, you referenced earlier and you know, I have gone on record on many places in many occasions talking about the Instagram. So like, whether it's, or you know, just comparisonitis any of the things that we've talked about.

I do think you're right that when you have something in front of you that, and again, we do this because we think it is for business, and then you're like, you're looking at all these other people that are doing things, which again, you have no idea whether those are current projects four years ago projects.

Something that you did in a, you know, whatever. You don't know anything about what that post actually is. Right. But it applies that pressure. Yes. Look what she's doing. Look what she's doing, look what she's doing. And then that leads to all of the other things.

Kielyn Simonson: Absolutely. And if you're doing it full time, especially in the beginning, I remember there was a fair amount of unstructured time because you know, if you don't have time, clients filling every single hour. So then it's like, okay, well whoa, if I'm working for someone else, going to an office, my hours are spoken for.

I don't have unstructured time. But when you have the house yourself and a day, you know you have choices around how you spend that time. And that can be really hard.

Melissa Klug: We're gonna talk about the problem and then, you know, the solution is in all of us. Like it's going to be the hard work of the sitting down and doing nothing for two minutes.

But one book that I recommend to people is called Deep Work by Cal Newport. So Cal Newport actually has several books that I recommend to people all the time, and one of them. I forget, I'm gonna have to, I'll put the proper title of the book in the show notes. But he is the proponent of digital detoxing and like really strict digital detoxing.

Yeah. But his book, deep Work, I really love because it talks about how he has structured himself so that he has these periods of what he calls deep work, where nothing, you don't let anything interfere. And then you just get in that mode and then you're done with the thing. Right. And then you can kind of release yourself.

And I think that's really the problem of, you know, with, we were talking about all the multitasking, everything else, like everything we're doing 10 things at a time. All of the things might not get done. So then you feel overwhelmed and then you just keep working and all the things. And so that concept of deep work is, let me.

Get into these several hour blocks of work with no distractions, and then I can release myself to have this, you know, this other time that is unstructured.

Kielyn Simonson: Right. And I think you were talking about this in the Marie Kondo after you went to Japan and we would, that idea of like always needing to be busy and and you had talked about being more conscientious of your own rest and your need to not over schedule yourself and overburden yourself.

And I

Melissa Klug: talked about it and now I'm back in the,

Kielyn Simonson: it's because those habits are so ingrained. Yeah. And because we do think like our worth is tied up in how much we get done. And I think like I, that it's that practice of like, okay, today I'm gonna take that hour and I'm going to go on the walk and maybe I'll just like listen to music.

Like, it's a step down from a podcast, right? Like, I can a little bit beep, or even I'll put in one AirPod instead of two. But I do think it's worth it. And especially we're modeling for kids, right? Like, I don't want Aily to grow up and feel like she's not doing anything worthwhile if she's not up and moving every single moment.

Yeah.

Melissa Klug: I'll tell you, I've seen it. I don't, I'm ragging on my own kids, but it's not just my kids. It's every kid of their age. But I watched them like last year I took a road trip with my daughter and there were many hours of, not a whole lot to do, right. And Minnesota to Arizona. It's a really long trip you guys.

But I would watch her, she'd be, I'd be driving and she'd be scrolling TikTok, and she'd be like, flip flip. Like she'd watch a TikTok for two seconds and be like, Nope nope. And it was just. Constant. Yeah. Like they, there are studies now about attention spans and things like that.

Yeah. Col especially college students, like, they don't have the patience to read very long passages of things. Like Yeah. Just, they're constantly dividing that attention. And I just think too that, you know, Instagram, all social media has like, given that to us. Right? Absolutely. Uhhuh. And so then that, you know, not having anything or just slowing down.

And my Japan trip was a great example of that. I really, I got home from that trip and I cannot, it was a transformational trip for me. And I said, I want to be different. Yeah. Really did. Yeah. And I do. Yeah. But it's really hard when you're not in that spot, then like regular life just happens again.

Yeah. And then you're like, I'm responsible. I'm the primary breadwinner for my family. And I'm about to have two kids in college and all those things. And you're like, yeah. All that like, stress is crushing Yeah. To all of us. It's,

Kielyn Simonson: it is. And yeah. And I was thinking, I saw that in Sedona for Aily too.

She's got her tablet. She really only gets it on travel. But that kid, we got a Mustang, we got our car upgrade. Oh, that's

Melissa Klug: so fun.

Kielyn Simonson: He's very cool. So we're driving with the top down to Sedona. It could not be more beautiful. And she's got her head down in her tablet like this.

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: It's like, oh. You're missing it, and we would say, okay, we're driving however many minutes now you can't have your tablet.

She goes, what am I supposed to do? Right. I feel you. I get it. Like I get it. Then

Melissa Klug: also then you totally get, I don't know if you do this but I totally do it with my kids. Sometimes I'll be like, guess what happened when I grew up? Yeah. We, I, like, we drove from Ohio to Colorado. On vacation. There were no, like, we would Yeah.

We finally one year got Walkman, right? And then my brother reminded me that my mom would only let us listen to it for a certain amount of time before she Oh, we've all been the same. Yeah. And and and I was like, oh yeah, we had like car games, like bingo where we would like, you know, find cars with certain license plates or like, whatever.

And my kids are like, boy, that sounds horrendous.

Kielyn Simonson: And I'm like, well,

Melissa Klug: I'm just letting you know how it was when we grew up.

Kielyn Simonson: Exactly. I remember that game. And you just kept yourself busy, just like, yes. Yeah, it's the blocking of the time too. I think being mindful of your time.

That is really helpful. And like, one thing that we've been doing, so like our organizer dinner, we the battle of trying to find a day that works for everyone is so much mental work. That.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. So what you're talking about is there are four of us who get together for dinner.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. And

Melissa Klug: yeah, finding that time is hard.

Kielyn Simonson: It's terrible. So like finding that, okay, like I want this to happen every month, I wanna be a part of it. So let's find date that it always happens on and whoever comes can come. Yeah. So that mental load of trying to schedule isn't an extra thing you have to deal with.

'cause everyone has so much mental load and so many decisions they're making every day. That I think like part of one thing I am doing well I feel like is thinking through like what is important to me right now and the friendships that are important to me right now and the things that actually restore me.

And one of those is time with my friends. One of those is time outside one of moving my body in some way. And it's usually moving my body outside if I can. And so I know that about myself. I'm starting to try and listen a little bit more deeply to my body. And so I. Like, while we were in Sedona, there was a day where we were driving more 'cause you're gonna the Grand Canyon and coming back and I was like, I have to move.

I have to move. I haven't been, I've been in the car so much. I know I'll be happier. I know I'll be a nicer parent if I can move. And so I think that's part of it, is being more mindful of our time and making sure that we fill in those things and maybe we have slots like. I know there are slots of the week that always work for me to do something with friends.

And so I'm like, okay, well if it's either a Tuesday or a Thursday evening, we can do dinner or a walk Saturday morning. I can do this or this. And so then I just try and fill those slots. And if I get asked to do something on another day, I have to think long and hard about whether it's worth that.

Yeah. Because I like to be gone every single night either.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. I have found for myself that putting some boundaries around my weekends have helped to Yeah. And sometimes that this is going to sound terrible, but I really love not leaving my house on a weekend. No, it's nice. And so even, and I think a lot of people are like, oh, well, weekends are friend time or whatever, and I'm like, I actually don't like that.

I'm just gonna be honest. Like I, when I have plans on a Saturday night, I am not happy. Yeah. And so I would rather say like, Hey, could we go out on Thursday night? Like Thursday night would be a fun night to go out, because then I also feel like I look forward to things more. I'm like, oh, after my workday I have something fun, and then tomorrow I'll have another workday.

Yeah. And yesterday and Sunday, like yesterday I made, yesterday was Sunday and I worked really hard not to leave my bed. Like, yeah. And that, for me, that has, setting a little bit of those boundaries has helped me. But. It doesn't solve the other problem of like, but even though I'm not leaving bed, by the way, I'm not just sitting in bed.

Yeah. I'm doing different things. So I still have the problem, but I'm trying to Yeah. Set more of that. Like, no, I don't have to like work on emails. I don't have to. Whatever. I just am going to read a book. I took a bath yesterday. Oh. I, you know, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like some of those kinds of things.

The restorative stuff.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. And we, we usually do stuff as a family on the weekends and so I try to not schedule too many friend things on the weekends too for that same reason. I just don't like to be so overscheduled or it really stresses me out.

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: And I need time for my, like. Habit of prepping for the week, which takes, yeah, basically a weekday or a weekend day it feels like, which is another topic altogether.

Melissa Klug: It really is. Well, I think too, and maybe this is me, but I doubt it. I feel like if it happens to me, it's probably happening to a lot of people. I will find too, like right now, I have a lot going on and there is a lot of overwhelm and so it's easy to just go like, oh my gosh, I have so many things.

It's kinda like a client. A client contacts us because they have so much stuff they don't know where to start. Right, right, right. And they always use the same word. It's overwhelmed and they always go, I don't know where to start. I don't know how to do all the things. Okay. Well, I do that in my own.

Totally like administrative life, right? Yeah. Yeah. And the classic thing of like, and I see this on the internet all the time. People are like, that thing that I put off for three months took me 10 minutes to take care of. Totally. Yeah. Like, I have to call my bank today. Yeah. Who wants to call their bank?

No one. Yep. Like, but I have to do it right? Because there is a thing that is going on that I need to take care of. And I have, I put it off all by the way. They were open all weekend. I could have got, I could have done it. I just put it off and I'm like, this will take me three minutes when I'm done. Right.

Right. And then it's my list. Yep. Yep. So I let that get in the way too, so it's not just like all this other stuff we're talking about, but I let that stress and anxiety overwhelm me over small tasks. And I'm like, if I just set aside an hour Yeah. To do the shit things

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. And take it away from all the

Melissa Klug: shit list.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. From your like scrolling time. Right. Because you know you're wasting that time elsewhere. Do you know what I did? I've taken

Melissa Klug: Instagram off my phone.

Kielyn Simonson: Good for you. I have a limit on, I have a new app that I'm using. Okay. Like it does a hard line. So after 30 minutes you put your apps on that you want off.

It's called Opal. Okay. It's, there's paper, OPAL, and you set your hard line limit of how long you want to be able to be on collectively. So it, you know, combines your time. But I have read it Instagram, Facebook, and I don't have TikTok on my phone right now for that exact reason. But those, so those are the three apps that I have blocked.

After 30 minutes, it just shuts 'em all down and you can access them for eight hours or 12, you know, till the next day. And I'm like, oh, it gives me anxiety every single time it pops on. And I'm like, oh man, I'm in the middle of something. Is it important? Probably not. But I am in the middle. Yeah. And so you have like a hard reset or like it's a process to try and get back in.

Works for me.

Melissa Klug: Well, so I tried that. So I didn't have I didn't have that. I just used the old Apple settings. Yeah. The screen time. Just use the Apple settings where it has a limit and then it'll come up. The problem with those is it will say, okay, I've reset my time, or it'll say, ignore limit, and then it'll give the choice.

Ignore for one minute, ignore for 15 minutes, ignore for the rest of the day. Yep. And the number of times I clicked ignore for the rest of the day. Same. So what you're hearing from this is, I have self-control problem, but I feel like we all probably have it.

Kielyn Simonson: Oh. I would also hit ignore for the rest of the day.

Melissa Klug: That's why. But if it's not on my phone, if I have to say, okay, in order to put this back on my phone, I have to go to the app store, I have to re-add it to my phone. That feels like a failure, right? Yep. And I'll, and so what I've been doing is I've actually started, I will put it back on my phone, like for the weekend.

Oh, sure. That's a good idea. Then I'll then, because then it is enjoyable scrolling time and not Yeah. I'm doing, I'm trying to do it more mindfully, but for me, I just know myself well enough to know it just can't be on my phone.

Kielyn Simonson: Right. And that's how I feel about TikTok. 'cause

Melissa Klug: I don't have TikTok. I took TikTok long time ago 'cause I was not, I did not have enough self-control.

Kielyn Simonson: It's terrible. It's such a, it's such a delightful. Yeah. Like who doesn't wanna sit there and scroll for a half hour and look at dog videos? Me, I wanna know all the animals I should bring home.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. Llamas, goats, whatever. Bring 'em home. Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: And it's it's really dangerous for my pocketbook as well.

Really. Yeah. Well,

Melissa Klug: and that, that's an important point because I do wanna bring, because one of the things that we haven't talked about is like, how do we break this? Like how can we just have. Nothing, time or rest or whatever. And I think the problem is that our brains always go to, like, I just said it myself, like I give myself Instagram on the weekends.

Like as a reward, but here's what happens with me, with Instagram. I don't even have like the fomo. I don't have a problem with the FOMO or Comparisonitis or any of that. Yeah. I really don't. What I do is I'll go into reels and they're always very enjoyable. Right? Yeah. Like, enjoyable is TikTok, but still pretty good.

Yeah. And I'll be going through and then, and I'll start the scrolling cycle and then it'll be like, oh, well that's funny. Oh, well that's a political thing that just made me mad. And Oh, that's a recipe. Oh, I forgot. I'm not eating healthy enough. Oh, this person is out. And like, it's not FOMO of work stuff.

It's like. Pressure of, I should be growing my own vegetables. Yeah. I should. Yeah. I should be. I should be. I should be. I should be. I should be. It actually, that relaxation thing that I have added back onto my phone actually gives me pressure in other parts of my life.

Kielyn Simonson: Right. It winds you up

Melissa Klug: a hundred percent.

And then it is, and by the way, there are documentaries and there are scientific studies about this. These apps are designed to be addicting. Yeah. And they are. It's 'cause you're like, maybe the next one, maybe the next video will be the one that calms my brain down and then I can shut it down. No, it just is gonna keep feeding me.

Yeah. Something else. It's gonna make me feel like I am an inadequate mom because I didn't grow my own vegetables. Totally. Or you get targeted ads that then make you spend money on things you don't need. And yes. It's the, like, when I took them off my phone and when I took TikTok off, I actually saved myself money because I wasn't Yes.

Kielyn Simonson: A hundred percent marketed to. And so I, it's, there's an element of like having to be a little bit thoughtful about that thing. So for sure.

Melissa Klug: Well, so one of the things, like kind of the original thing we talked about is like we can't do nothing. Like I I actually realized one day I don't have any hobbies. You know, what are your hobbies? I'm like, I don't have a hobby. Hobby. Like, I'm not, I know myself well enough. I'm not gonna learn how to knit uhhuh.

I'm not gonna be like I like doing Legos. You can judge me if you want, but I love Legos. No, I love Legos. But even just like, I'm not good at saying, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go build a set of Legos because I go no. You have all these other things. You know, all the things that are hanging over your head.

Why don't you go do those? Right. And so I need to be better about just saying like, no, I'm allowed. I. I'm allowed to have this time. Right. One of the things that hit me too, just about, like, I always have my phone around, like we're recording this podcast, but I got it right here. Right. And I've done all the things.

I, I don't have notifications on my phone's been on silent. Someone the other night was like, oh, I didn't wanna I had some a thought, but I didn't wanna text you in the middle of the night. I'm like, ma'am, my phone's been on silent since 2002. Like, bug away. I don't care. But I don't have any chimes. I don't have any of those things.

But still your phone is just always here to go, you know, there's something here, right? Totally. Yeah. You know, there's something here. Yeah. And I had this moment where I go, so why do I feel that compulsion to always have it around. When I'm working or whatever, and I'm like, I don't ever have that compulsion when I sleep.

Like I never wake up at three in the morning and go, oh my gosh, I need to check my phone to see if someone texted me.

Kielyn Simonson: Right. Same. I come asleep.

Melissa Klug: So why do I not allow myself to do that during the day?

Kielyn Simonson: Right. Right. It's, yeah. And giving your brain just that one thing. Like I, or I'm

Melissa Klug: with a client.

I am not, I'm very disciplined when I'm with a client. If I am working with a client, you're not gonna be, I'm not checking my phone. Right. So mist and you know, I'll leave a session and I'll have 35 text messages or whatever. Yeah. But I did not have a compulsion to be like, sorry, I need to stop the session to go check those texts.

Yeah. So why do I have that same compulsion when I'm working on SEO? Yeah. Working on email or whatever. Yeah. Do you think that we're valuing that time less because it's just something you're doing for yourself? Maybe. I don't know. I think because the things that I have the hardest time with are the things that truly only benefit me.

Kielyn Simonson: Weightlifting

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: Only benefits me going on a hike without the dog.

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: Like there are times where I'm like, oh, I'd really like to go somewhere and walk just by myself. Like the dog barks all the time. If we walk him at nighttime, there are some nights where I just like wanna get out and move a little bit.

Yeah. But I like physically can't not bring the dog. Yeah. Because I, I need to have it be productive. Isn't that wild?

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: So it's just, we're all

Melissa Klug: our own problem is what?

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and honestly, like, I truly believe that the business owners that build balance are the better business owners like you.

You are sounder, you're sounder minded. You have a better sense of what's worth your time and what isn't. And you know, there's always that stressor of. Having something, but maybe we need to just be more thoughtful about what is of value and what isn't. And our time that, you know, are things that make us a good business owner and that keep us revitalized are just as important.

Melissa Klug: I see this a lot as an outsider, you know, when people are talking about their businesses, I can see it from the outside, same way as we can see what our client's problems are. Totally. And I see this a lot of, and I fall into this trap myself too, of basically like I'm gonna work on something that is not actually value added because the thing that I need to work on that's value added, it feels hard or insurmountable, or I don't know how to do it, so all those things. So I'll work on this easy thing to make myself feel productive, but I haven't actually done the thing. Yes. And so I think it's that task avoidance or whatever word you wanna use for it. That, you know, yes, you have done something, but was it revenue producing? Is it important? Because that's what, those are the words that you just said.

Like is it even important? Yeah. The answer is sometimes it's not. And then we still have that list of things over our head that's not allowing us to just rest and quiet our brains.

Kielyn Simonson: Right. And maybe we need to channel a little bit of our clients where they're the little bit of the fuck it energy, where they're like, oh, don't care.

Melissa Klug: Getting done. Burn it down. Yeah. Which is always my favorite client thing. Can you just burn it down? I know I can. I don't think you

Kielyn Simonson: actually want that, Janet. Stop telling me to burn your house down. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a level of like being able to just be okay with chaos that I absolutely cannot handle.

Yeah. So it's interesting. It's just something to think about.

Melissa Klug: What are some of the things, so you like to walk and do things like that. Do you have anything else that you do when you're in one of these cycles?

Kielyn Simonson: I love to read, but like just and on its own, it should be enough. You know, reading for pleasure is

Melissa Klug: yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: One of my very favorite things to do. And so I do that. I think being with Ilie, playing with her and being actually present, playing with her, playing games, doing crafts, cooking, you know, that kind of stuff. Going on some sort of a little adventure and you know, that kind of thing is really fun. But like, even last night we had just had dinner and my husband's like, okay, I'm gonna watch the rest of the basketball game and then I'll come up and finish cleaning up.

I'll clean dinner. 'cause I made it. And I said, well, she goes, let's play Yahtzee. And I said, okay, well, I'm just gonna finish cleaning up dinner. She goes, dad just said he would do it when he came back up.

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: Let's gonna do it just to get it done.

Melissa Klug: Yeah,

Kielyn Simonson: I know. She called me on it, which was great, and she said, no, let's just play now.

Dad said he would do it. And I was like,

Melissa Klug: alright, okay.

Kielyn Simonson: Dad

Melissa Klug: did say he would do it, right? Yeah, could love that. Just reminds me, the great news is my mother-in-law doesn't know, she doesn't know about podcasts, so I can say this. And she'll never hear it, but one time when my nephew was little so my mother-in-law's always like, like, do you know that line from the movie, A Christmas story where the kid's, like, my mom hadn't had a hot meal since 1965 or whatever.

Yeah. And or 1945 and, so Tim's mom is a little bit like that, where, you know, when the whole family's over, she's constantly doing things like, like dinner will be on the table, ready to go, whatever. And she'll be like, well, who needs this? Who's, and we're like, Hey, no, just sit down with us. Enjoy.

Just sit down. But she constantly has to be in motion. Right. And she's doing it to serve people, right? Like it comes from a, it comes from a good place. But tying it back to what your daughter said to you when my nephew was very little. You know, hi, Tim's mom was doing something to the kid and he'd clean up whatever and Jacob was like, no, I wanna play.

And she's like, well, I just have to do one more thing. I just have to do one more thing. And he said he was really little. And he goes, I don't think anyone ever taught grandma how to play. Wow. And I think about that, that kid is now. 27 years old, and I still think about that. I don't think anyone ever taught grandma how to play.

Yeah. She's always like, cleaning something in the kitchen, cleaning house, you know, I need to just throw in a load of laundry, whatever. And so sometimes, like seeing it from the outside perspective helps you remember like, oh yeah, I don't want to be that person.

Kielyn Simonson: Right, right. I don't wanna model that behavior and I want, I don't want her to feel like she's always the second person on my list.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. You know? Well, and I, same thing, modeling behavior is I don't want my kids to have that. Like, I would like them to have enjoyment in life. Right. And they do. I just want them to be able to, you know, I wanna teach them the right lessons about, their mom being an entrepreneur or whatever. Totally. Like my inability to just stop. And sometimes the kids do have to say it to you. Like my daughter said to me one time, like, why do you say yes to everyone all the time? And I was like, boy, that hurts a little bit. Because True,

Kielyn Simonson: because you do, it's so hard to not help when you get asked and yeah.

And it's just not, it just doesn't need to be this way. I feel like it's, you know, it's a choice to be perpetually in motion and. I don't know. I don't want, I, you know, I've read somewhere something about like this person's on their deathbed and they don't think about, you know, all the things that were on their list.

So where are our priorities out of whack and where can we put into, you know, yes, this is our business and it's super important and you know, I am passionate about it. I know there's always something that I can do for it. And we're not curing cancer. Correct. We can take time off. Yeah. And enjoy the time off and be with our family and be with our friends and ourselves.

Melissa Klug: There was something in the Inspired Organizer Facebook group the other day that I think really speaks to this, and it's just a reminder for all of us of, there was an organizer who was going on vacation and she has a team, and she's like, okay, people with teams, how do you prepare to be out of office?

And how many times a day do you check in? And how many times, you know, like, and so I just said. Please go enjoy vacation. Right? Like maybe unless you're going somewhere for six weeks. You know, like if you're going somewhere for most people go on vacation for a week, right? If you're going somewhere for a week, there's not a whole lot in your business.

Yeah. That can implode in a week, right? You have someone on your team that you've designated to be in charge. Mm-hmm. Them be in charge. Yeah. Trust their judgment and say. I'll deal with it when I get back. But something about that post like really made me sad. That this person is like, okay, give me the, give me all the tasks I need to do while I'm on vacation.

Right, right. That's another thing. And that's a, I think that's more of a uniquely American thing. I think totally ERs in Europe and Australia are like, what the hell are you even talking about? Like, I think there are many other parts of the world that do a very good job of I'm on vacation. Like, what?

What are you talking about? Like, leave me alone. Yeah. We're bad at that. I think, and it's been ingrained in us, I think for years and years of like, no, you have to check in on vacation. And I mean, I, we need to be better at going, no, I don't. Yeah. My business is not going to implode in seven days.

Kielyn Simonson: Yes, exactly.

It's not, and I'm better about that now. Like, I do know that there is this like early on because when you're starting out, you're like, oh yeah. Everyone's my client. I need to work with every single person, every inquiry that comes in, I've gotta give it the attention it deserves at this moment, or they'll go with someone else.

Yes. And over time you're like not everyone's my client. And guess what? They understand we have a life and if they ask me for a weekend, I can say no. Like I don't have to have a thousand different things. You know, I don't have to accommodate every insane request that I get just to keep the business.

Melissa Klug: Right.

Kielyn Simonson: So

Melissa Klug: on the flip side, you can accept those when you feel like it, like

Kielyn Simonson: Right. Occasionally.

Melissa Klug: I don't mind working a Saturday.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. For the right reason when you have to be resentful about it later. Like Correct. Yes. Because I find that the ones where I'm like, Ooh, that really doesn't fit. I had a client ask for a 7:00 AM start, that's not logistically appropriate for me at all.

Like, I can't get to your house in South Minneapolis and have all of the things for my family and myself done, and I will be resentful the whole time. Yeah. Yes, you can ask, but I can say no.

Melissa Klug: Yeah, you can ask and I can go that sounds terrible.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. Sorry about

Melissa Klug: that.

Kielyn Simonson: My morning matters just as much as yours, you know?

Absolutely.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. I have, I don't, I had a really good one recently where I had a client who had a, an emergency, which Carly my friend, my good friend Carly Adams, always had this phrase like, there is no such thing as an organizing emergency. Right. And she absolutely correct, right? But you do have people that, you know, maybe don't plan ahead, right?

Or you go right. Whatever I move next week, right? And I had a client in that situation. It was like a move situation that was happening and their move got moved up, blah, blah, blah, whatever. It doesn't matter. And so they were like, please, like we're in a panic, like can you help us? And I said. Yes, I can help you, but you have to be flexible.

I go, what is your flexibility? Because I am going to have to do some things like work off hours and that type of thing. And they were like, oh my gosh, we're so flexible. You can come. Like, no problem. Okay. What that turned into is when I actually tried to execute on the, we're so flexible plan.

They're like, well, we really need you to be out by four because we like to start our evening routine and we need to do this. And we, and I'm like, these two things don't align. Right. So you can't have an emergency. And then also tell me that I can only work between 12 and four or whatever. So these are just all situations, and by the way, they're really hard even for someone like you or I who have been in this business for a while.

Totally. These are hard things, so especially if you're newer in your business, it's hard to push back on people. It's hard to have boundaries and it's hard to say no.

Kielyn Simonson: It is.

Melissa Klug: Sometimes you have to.

Kielyn Simonson: You do and you can build respect for yourself on the, in the process and for your business. And I think learning to have hard conversations is one of the hardest things about being a business owner.

But I'm so much better at having harder conversations with my clients to the than I was when I started out. It just is it, but it's always hard and it's always scary. And it's like that moment when you go into every new project. I don't know if this is just me, but every time I go into a new project, either by myself or with my team, I'm always like, holy shit, I don't know if we can do it.

Yeah. Right. And it works out. It always works out. Yeah. But I always have that moment of like, what if this is the one that doesn't work out? What if I can't fix this person's house?

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: And it never happens. No. And you know, and they're gonna have a different idea of what perfection looks like to them.

What does success look like?

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: They're saying they're probably gonna be different.

Melissa Klug: That's another thing that was in our Facebook group last week is there was someone who, she submitted some pictures and she's like, I'm not good at estimating. Like, what would you guys estimate? I have to give a proposal to this client.

What would you think? You know, it takes in this house. And so I, because I'm the guy I'm sure people don't like it, but it is literally my job. I go why do you have to give a proposal? Yeah. Like client requesting that. Yeah. Like sometimes clients do, sometimes clients are like, I really need you to give me kind of like a proposal or whatever.

But I was like, or are you putting this pressure on yourself? Him an exact amount of time and that proposal and all that stuff. And she admitted like, oh no, I just thought I had to. You don't, I mean like you can if you want to, but I don't, no, I don't do that.

Kielyn Simonson: No. I kind of will give a rough idea.

I'll be like, oh, I think, you know, roughly a space a day. Yeah. But. You know that, and that's how it's subject to a lot of things, their decision making capability, the density of this house. I mean, there's a thousand things that could go. I

Melissa Klug: would say it's a math problem. Totally. It's the size of the house, times the number of things, times the speed of decision making times like it, it's a math problem and you can't possibly solve that.

But it's like, I think the problem is we put this pressure on ourselves of like what we are supposed to be doing. Yeah. Whether that is giving a proposal with an exact amount of hours to a client, or, which, by the way, they're not even expecting. Right. We're sometimes doing things to ourselves that aren't required for the business because we just decide they are.

I would say challenge those things, and I mean, I need to challenge those conceptions in my own life too.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah, I would agree entirely. And that's, I appreciate that about the group because sometimes you do need someone that says, wait, why? Why are you, why?

Melissa Klug: Why is that bothering you? I said that to someone on one of our calls, the other like, why is it bothering you?

Yeah. Is it bothering and there's a reason it's bothering you? You're letting it bother you because it's helping you. It's stopping you from thinking about harder things to think about, right?

Kielyn Simonson: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's like we ask our clients like, why? Why? You know, we do a lot of why's with our clients too, and when someone calls about someone else's mess and it's like, well, does it bother the person that actually lives in it?

Because if it doesn't, yes, we're wasting our time.

Melissa Klug: I had that conversation with a client one time who she was insisting that her husband had to fold things. She like, wanted to do KonMari very faithfully. Oh, no. She was insisting that her clearly very angry. Her husband was very unhappy to be involved in any of this, right?

Like, clearly. And she was insisting that he had to fold all of his shorts properly. Oh, wow. He's like, can I just throw them in the bin? And I finally was like, yes, you can. And she looks at me like she's angry at me, that I didn't back her up, which fine, I don't really care. But I was like, no. I said, well, let me ask you this. I said, if you're gonna insist that he has to do things away, and he's saying, I don't need to do that. That does, that's not a requirement for me. I go. If you insist on that, then you need to do it for him. Yeah. Like something that you require that he doesn't.

And I so said, so are you gonna do his laundry and are you gonna fold it? She goes, absolutely not. I go, okay, well then, and let it go. Move the way he wants to.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. Yeah. And my mom not worth it. It's not, my mom gave me this marriage advice when we first got married, and she was like, what you do is you have to, when you're deciding who does what, you decide who cares more about each thing because they are the person that should own it.

So like, does Charlie know how to cook? Kind of, yeah. Would we be eating a lot of craft mac and cheese and processed hot dogs also? Yes. And so I care about nutrition and having things be balanced, so I do the cooking. Yeah. And you know, when he, when it was early on, he said, well, I will clean up afterwards, but I, it might not be exactly how you wanna do it.

And so I had to let that go and just know, okay, maybe I'm gonna have to come back in and do the countertops if he doesn't do them. Something like that, you know? So it's this level of. Letting go of the things that matter. Less to you. Do I care that our lawn is not mowed as often as I would probably do it personally.

Yeah. It bothers me. But do it, does it bother me enough to take it on? No.

Melissa Klug: In my house the answer to that is, does it bother me? Yes. And do I then do it myself also? Yes. Yeah. Because I have said it bothers me. Therefore, and then I go, well, you know what? It's actually enjoyable time for me. It's good exercise.

Yeah. I get a good sweat. Yep. The water looks the way I want it to. Yeah. I don't have to nag my husband about it, and he's gonna like everybody wins.

Kielyn Simonson: Yep. Yep. So that ownership thing really does help. 'cause it's like the things that you are upset about or that, but then you have to be careful that not everything is something you're upset about or that

Melissa Klug: Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: You're weighed in on.

Melissa Klug: Exactly. But all those things are a part of it, right? Like, so everything that we're talking about is not only do we have our business, but we also have our life are house. Yeah. I don't care if you have 12 kids, zero kids married, not married, all of us have life stuff. Yeah.

Stressful, right? And so having all of that over your head too, just kind of adds to it. So I just think in general, we have to learn how to slow down and be kinder to ourselves and it's easier said than done.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah.

Melissa Klug: So

Kielyn Simonson: worth it. Worth the attempt anyway. Absolutely.

Melissa Klug: Well, we've been all over the place.

Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about your business and just you know, how long you've been doing it, all those things.

Kielyn Simonson: I ha My business is OrgaNice professional organizing services. It was named by my best friend who was in marketing at Best Buy at the time. Love it

Melissa Klug: by the way, in case you don't know, everybody talks about Minnesota.

Nice. Like it's a phrase that we use, so her business plays on that name, which I've always loved.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah, I like it. And. Part of my business is, you know, I make a point of being kind and nonjudgmental with my clients and we are fortunate that we have worked with really wonderful people for the vast majority of our clients.

And so it's easy because they're good people. But I've been doing it for 60 years. I've started out just side hustling. I worked in senior living and I just, after I had my daughter, I was like, God, I just want a little more control over my schedule and my ability to grow my income. 'cause you know, when you're working for someone else, you're limited and there might be something, you know, you, there's a risk you take when you're per, when you're a entrepreneur, but there's an unlimited potential, which is something that I really like, and it gave me the schedule and the structure that I needed to be present when I needed to be for Aily, which is.

We only have one daughter. We, she's, when she's gone and outta the house, it's over. And so I wanna be there. So anyway yeah, but I've been, we, I have a team right now. There's five part-time people that work, you know, different levels of part-time and I. I put people on projects based on their interests and their geography and kind of working on growing things as I go.

But it's been the best thing I ever did from my working life for sure. I love it. Yeah, it's great.

Melissa Klug: The other thing, the other pitch I'm gonna make to people, and I make this a lot, but , reach out to some local organizers. Oh, yes. And like, I just love that I have a network of people that I can be like, I don't have the bandwidth for this job.

But you know what? I know you and I live close to each other, so I'll be like. Hey, I have this thing. Is your team available? Yeah. It's so nice to have referral partners that you can trust like that you don't have to worry about like, I'm just giving this job to a random person. What if they do a terrible job?

Like develop that network of people because it's so nice and such a relief when you have that.

Kielyn Simonson: It really is, and it's just, it's nice not to feel super competitive with people that are actually legitimately competitors. Like we all know that we are good in our businesses in different ways and we offer different things to our clients, but I know that all of us are good at what we do.

And so it's nice to have that friendship in not have to worry so much about, you know, it's very anti our culture to be. It is. Kind and helpful to each other instead of competitive.

Melissa Klug: Well, and that's a really good point is especially now, like I, one of the things we didn't talk about is, you know, right now there's just a lot going on.

Like things feel really stressful, like in the world. Right? And so I think that reminding yourself that there is that goodness and kind of, and it's, ive seen it in the organizing industry in spades. Yeah. Like, yeah. Literal, when I think about the people that I have met in organizing the, you know, hundreds if not thousands of organizers and I'm like, there are like a couple duds and that based on my old corporate life almost everyone was a dud.

Right? Like numbers almost 100% dud. Right?

Kielyn Simonson: Right. Like yeah. Organizers are a good group of people. That's really good. Found that to be true as well. And I like knowing other women entrepreneurs, even if they're not just organizers. 'cause it's just, there's this level of understanding that they have that.

Even men, it's not the same. They don't get the emotional labor that we have and the difficulty of balance. And so having other women that you can trust and tell like your crazy stories too, is really helpful. I.

Melissa Klug: Absolutely. It really is. And yeah, I totally wanna give a pitch for if you live in an area where there are, you know, a decent amount of organizers get a nice tribe because you know, you and I and a couple of other people in our area have just developed this lovely friendship and it's really great. It truly is great to just get together and be like, you will not believe what happened to you. Yeah. And then I'll be like, yeah, we will. Yeah. We absolutely will believe that it happened to you today because anything happened to me last week or whatever.

Yeah.

Kielyn Simonson: It's really restorative. It just kind of fills your cup up in a way where, you know and you don't have necessarily coworkers every day. I mean, even if though I have a team, it's not like I see them every day in the office and we talk, you know? So it's not the same as working for someone where you have that coworker relationship.

And so it fills my cup in that way, which is nice.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. Well, I will link all of your information in our show notes, so if someone wants to reach out and say, hi, I know you would really love it, and, we will just try to hold each other accountable for a little bit more Rest.

Kielyn Simonson: Yeah. Go easy on ourselves.

Melissa Klug: Yeah. Also, I would say if someone out there that's listening has like a groundbreaking, like great idea Yeah. That we have done, seriously, email me. Hello. At pro organizer studio.com. Yeah. I will totally talk about it on a future podcast of like, yeah. Hey, you know, let's do a part two. Yeah, absolutely. Like, let me know if you have something that has really magically worked for you, because I'm on the hunt, so Totally.

Same thing. Every once in a while I just go like, my solution is, I would like to go crawl on the hole from crawling for a month. And that's not really an option. Yeah. I wish. Yeah. Well, thank

Kielyn Simonson: you so much for being with us. Yeah. It's so wonderful. Thank you .