222 | My Client Isn't Happy. Now What? Missi McKown of Clear Spaces Organizing

May 12

No matter how great of an organizer you are, there will come a time where a client has something that isn't quite right in their house or something that they aren't happy with from you or your team. How you handle this can go a long way to turning dissatisfaction into happiness--and even getting that client to refer you out or have more sessions.

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HIGHLIGHTS

Navigating Boundaries and Balance in Professional Organizing

In this episode of the Pro Organizer Studio podcast, Melissa Klug shares her personal journey into professional organizing and how it transformed her life from a corporate career to a successful six-figure business. Alongside her friend Missi, Melissa discusses the importance of setting and maintaining boundaries in professional organizing. They share personal anecdotes and cautionary tales about managing client relationships, avoiding burnout, and maintaining work-life balance. The episode also delves into Enneagram types and how understanding personality traits can impact how organizers manage their workloads and client expectations. Additionally, Melissa highlights her Organizing Essentials course and its benefits for both new and experienced organizers. Throughout the conversation, they offer practical advice on maintaining flexibility while setting clear boundaries to ensure long-term success and personal well-being.

00:00 Welcome to the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast

00:55 Introduction to Organizing Essentials Course

01:58 How Not to Be Like Us: A Cautionary Tale

03:07 The Enneagram and Organizing

06:23 Client Boundaries and Burnout

13:05 Balancing Flexibility and Boundaries

13:47 Personal Stories and Hypocrisy

16:32 Navigating Client Relationships

21:57 Reflecting on Personal Boundaries

27:58 Childhood Influences on Boundaries

29:47 Childhood Influences and Personality Formation

30:13 The Struggles of People-Pleasing

32:10 Setting Boundaries with Clients

34:24 Blurring the Lines in Professional Services

37:06 Recognizing and Addressing Burnout

42:34 Balancing Work and Personal Life

52:58 The Importance of Values and Self-Awareness

58:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Hey, pro organizers. My name is Melissa Klug and you are listening to the pro organizer studio podcast. Professional organizing changed my entire life. After 20 years of working at huge companies, I started working for myself. I opened a professional organizing business, grew it to six figures, and I never looked back.

Now I get to spend all day, every day teaching organizers around the world how to find clients, how to market and sell yourselves, how to turn this business into what you want it to be. Whether you have been in business for 15 minutes or 15 years, you have a home at Pro Organizer Studio. I'm excited that you're here.

Let's get started.

Hey, pro organizers, it's Melissa, and today I wanna tell you with my friend Missi, how not to be like us. How not to be like me, and you will understand a little bit more once we get into it. But before we get started, I just want to give everyone a reminder. My Organizing Essentials course, which was made straight from my heart about my favorite subject, which is organizing with clients.

We have a wonderful community of people in Organizing Essentials, and all we do is talk about how to be a better organizer for our clients. So if you are trying to learn a little bit better how to work with clients, how to work through some of the psychology of clients, why they won't. Say goodbye to things, any of those difficult client situations.

Organizing Essentials is for you. We are closing on May 31st when we reopen, our price will be going up significantly, so I would love for you to get in before that deadline. If you want to go to pro organizer studio.com/essentials.

you can sign up there. It's $249 for lifetime access and you get one Zoom a month with me and I would love to have you in our group.

Alright, so without further ado, my friend Missi, and I wanna tell you how to not be like us. Here we go. Have a great week Organizers.

I'm going to look up what you said to me earlier today. Okay. Because you said the intro. Yes, I did. I did play it for Andy. Okay. Hold on.

Okay.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: I just started the intro of our podcast. So this is a cautionary tale. Please do the opposite of everything we do unless you'd like to burnout and stress yourself out, and also start dropping balls left and right, including family, friends, and relationships that are important to you.

Okay, let's dive into it.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: All right. And I said perfect. No notes. Right. First of all this is going up. You will have heard Missi two weeks ago if you listen regularly. Two, I think two episodes ago I had Missi on and Missi's back. I mean, you have to listen to me every week so you can listen to Missi once every other week.

But this started very organically. Missi and I are in real life friends, and we both are organizers in the Twin Cities, and we frequently talk about, you know, clients and situations of business and all the things. And we realize, I mean, we have the same problem. Is that fair? That is accurate, yes.

Same. Multiple problems that are similar.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: This particular one we're gonna discuss today is that we both are Enneagram twos. Yes. We like to make people happy. We like to help people. It's part of the reason we got into the profession that we're in, right? Yes. Okay. And sometimes we take it too far

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: sometimes.

And I don't like buzzwords a lot. And I also think that there's so many words right now that are like vastly overused but really what we're talking about is having good or not great boundaries with clients, worries, blurring the lines, is what I like to call it.

And I wanna back up. So I've done some podcasts about Enneagram and I am a person who as part of my career path in life, I've had to take a bunch of you know, personality tests and other things like that. Myers Briggs obviously, and a bunch of others. But to me, I. Enneagram, when I first heard about it at kind of at the start of my work at Pro Organizer Studio, I had never heard of it before. And Laurie Palau was on and she was talking about it. And Enneagram to me, describes my personality so effectively, and also I believe it, I have used it with other people in my life and it describes them so effectively that it's actually, I think, a tad scary.

Do you agree?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. Yes. And they always tell you try not to guess anybody else's type or whatever. And I think that's probably true across. All personality tests a hundred percent. And it's really hard not to, you know, to just like wonder. But for example, when Andy figured out his number, I had no hot clue.

I was like, wait, that's what's going on inside your head?

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Interesting. Okay. There is a there's a clip from the show, New Girl. That one of the characters goes, are you telling me that you just sit around all day and think about what other people are thinking and feeling and it's just yes.

Don't you? They're like, no. And that, that sounds exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. Enneagram two. Yes, it sounds exhausting. Enneagram two is the helper. And of course I have aspects, we all have aspects of other Enneagram types in our personality, but two is, I always say I'm a hard two. And what that means to me is like so many of those characteristics, like I definitely subsume myself in helping others.

I will do things that are a detriment to myself because I don't wanna disappoint someone else. I've told this story before, but I saw on Instagram one time that someone was like, Enneagram two gets kidnapped. And I said, the person in the back of the car, and she'd be like, Hey, Mr. Kidnapper, you haven't stopped for a while.

Are you tired? Do you want me to drive? Like I have a snack in my bag. Would you like a snack? I'm like, oh my gosh, I've never been described so perfectly in my entire life. Right. That's a great one because you and I are like that. And we are also in a helping industry that can lead to challenging situations.

Yeah. And if left untreated burnout. Yes. And if left untreated without taking, please see your doctor. Yeah. We need to think of a name for a drug that we can take for some sort of prescription medication that we could take.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. For this condition, you may need a nap. And also to say no to some things.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yes. But the whole point of this is Missi and I were having a very organic conversation about a client she had, and this client had, let me just say, asked her for a 45 second turnaround thing. Is that a fair way to say it?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah, I had a client where we started with a large team of six on day one. Got an amazing amount of work done and we were coming back for day two. It's the evening before day two, and I get a text that says, Hey, my kiddo was home sick.

And then the, their fever just spiked tonight. I really don't think it's a good idea for you guys to come tomorrow. And I was like, no problem. Totally understand. None of us wanna get sick either. Hope he feels better. We'll, I'll send you some reschedule options tomorrow. Great. I texted the team, Hey, please confirm, you know, five other people.

Please confirm that you will not drive to this location tomorrow. And they're all like confirm. Great. Perfect. I go to bed. I wake up in the morning and I've already re-planned my day. I had canceled two meetings. I put 'em back on the calendar. I'm getting ready to go to the first one and I look at my phone and there's a text sent real late at night that's Hey, I think I can make it work.

Can you all still come? And I'm like. Oh my gosh.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Now we talked about the text came. The text came to you at one in the morning. It did. You're seeing it at what? Six? I think. Six, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: And I was just like, okay, Missi, this is a really great opportunity to practice your boundaries.

Like you need to say no. This is an obvious No. The whole team has already canceled. Canceled means canceled. We've canceled it.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: And I will also add that Missi and I align on something else very specific. We love it when people cancel plans on us. We love a cancel plan. I never have a cancellation policy in my business, which maybe you can argue is a boundary that I need, but I don't because 100% of the time someone cancels on me.

I'm like cool. That is great news to me. And you felt the same way about this situation. Always Yes. Because there is

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: always other things we can be doing

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: always. Even

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: if it's just oh my gosh, I really need a nap this week. I mean, you know, there I can fill the day, no problem. There's always a running to-do list.

And I started adding some things in of oh, I can run this errand that I've been putting off. And to be fair, it was for that client. So I was like, okay, day's been reconfigured and now she wants this back. And I'm like, oh boy. So I put on my big girl boundary pants, I guess, and it's just you know what?

No, you know, I've already told the team, no, we, they, some may have already rescheduled their days. I've rescheduled mine. Like I'm not even available at the start time anymore. Let's just reschedule. Here are some dates.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: And I, as your friend was like, good for you. I'm so proud of you. That is great.

This is crazy. And you can't, you know, totally change around 72 people's schedule. But I was like, so happy for you, right? Yeah. You were cheering me on. I was. Because you needed the day. Yeah, you needed the day and you really had planned other things.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: So then, and then duh, and then the replies start coming in, you know, are you sure there's not even one person who can come today? I really wanna get this done. Those other dates you sent me don't work. This is the, it's now or never, essentially was the vibe. And I was just like, oh gosh. And I know how close we are to getting the house to a place where she can really fully relax.

And I was like, I'll see what I can do. And Melissa was just like, oh hell no. Like I did, I think I actually said, oh hell no. She is like you. No, you, yeah. Anyway, not a fan then of me changing my mind and just opening up the door to the possibility. So I check with the team and I get one reply back almost immediately of yeah, let's do it.

Game on. Like I'm in the right head space for it. Let's go. Let's just get it finished. This is from the team member who's gonna build most of the things. She's got her drill ready, you know, we're putting holes in the wall, things are happening. And I was like, well, okay. I mean, I really couldn't do it without that one person because I'm, I don't build anything.

So I'm like, okay, even if it's just the two of us, we can go for a few hours and just get like the minimum amount done. Because now I have it in my head that I, I do need a break. And I would like some downtime, not hands-on work. So I was able to recall four out of the six of us for all of them partial days, not a complete day.

And the client was so dang sweet and appreciative and grateful, and we got the house to like such a good spot. You could see the relief. She couldn't stop talking about how relieved she was. And I was like, ah. Because the one thing Melissa had said to me was, you're gonna be mad at yourself if you go.

And I replied, I'm gonna be mad at myself either way because. Who put me in this situation and she goes, well, that's a fair point.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yes. And in my defense, yeah, when you said at the end of the day when you're like, she was so happy and this was a particular situation where you really were helping her a tremendous amount.

Yeah. And she was so happy. And she was so relieved. And I was like. Good for you. Like you made the right choice, like your gut was right. That it was the right thing for you to go and do. And one of the things we'll talk about throughout this whole thing is it would've been a problem for future you this thing was still gonna be on your calendar at some point.

And to some degree it was, let's just get it done. Yeah. And then you know, it would be a good ending versus a womp kind of an ending.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. Or like a, we're not sure when we're gonna get to this again, and now you're on the waiting list, waiting for somebody else to reschedule and it'd be a whole thing.

So yeah. I do agree that I'm grateful that it's all wrapped up now in a nice pretty bow even, you know, it's good. And yet it was really hard to I held my boundary for like less than an hour, you know? Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I think it was more like 20 minutes. But anyway, whatever for that 20 minutes, I was really proud.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Probably true. I really, yeah, and I think it's so tricky because there are times where it's totally appropriate to hold the boundary and be like, no, we're not doing it. And there are times where it's it is. Okay. And maybe even write or appropriate to bend those rules. Yes. And that's different for everybody.

And so kind of navigating that is tricky. Yes.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: And I do wanna get into that. Before we get into that, I would like to tell everyone why I am a hypocrite. Would you like to also hear that? I mean, I know I would

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: like really giddy for this part because this is how this whole idea got started because of what happened to both of us within a 24 hour time span.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yes. I mean, when I tell you we are recording this podcast on Friday afternoon.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. I think

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: we started this conversation about, do you know what we need a podcast about how you and I are really bad at boundaries at eight hours ago or maybe, probably not, maybe a little earlier than that, but maybe I guess Go, do you wanna record a podcast about it this afternoon?

Let's do it. Yeah. Because it's both fresh in our mind. I would like to explain to you why that story that Missi just told about Melissa was so bad and said, hold the boundary. Why I'm a fricking hypocrite. Okay. Because here's why I have had, I've had I'm not gonna bore everyone with a story like Missi has been bored with it.

I have had two very stressful weeks. And just going from one thing to another. No sleep. You know that Lady Gaga Instagram sound like bus club, another club. No sleep. That is how my last two weeks have been only with less vocal talent. And so last night so I woke up yesterday at five in the morning.

I had about five hours of sleep. I had an intensely full day. I had a client that was super hard work. Then I went straight from that to try to make myself look presentable because it was softball senior night. So getting tons of pictures taken. So I had to actually look like I was put together and not sweaty and gross.

From my client's house. There were two softball games. The wind was blowing 212 miles an hour dust everywhere. So four hours of softball. Then we went from four hours of softball into softball, senior banquet, and I got home at 10 o'clock last night. Okay. So I had a what? 15 hour day. So this whole day it was a lot by the way.

It was lovely. But it was a lot. You can, both of those things can be true. And I was messaging Missi and several of my other friends. I'm doing nothing tomorrow. I'm sleeping in, I'm gonna sleep as late as I want to, and I got an office day and the weather's gonna be cruddy and I'm just gonna snuggle in and I'm gonna sit at my laptop.

I'll probably have my laptop in bed. I'm gonna have such a nice day and I'm not going to leave my house. So the first problem was you said that out loud. Well correct. I did, I should have kept my feelings to myself, which I'm not good at. First problem was, could sleep as late as I want. Body was like, 6:00 AM chip, chop, let's go.

Okay. Wide awake at 6:00 AM and I'm like, I really try to go back to sleep. It wasn't happening. Okay, fine. So I'm up. So I start working and one of the things that I do is I text a long-term client of mine. I've done a huge move for her and we had a few little straggly things that she wasn't in a particular hurry for.

But I had been putting her off on these straggly things for a couple weeks. Okay. And so I texted her and I'm like, Hey, I know that we've both kind of had a week. She has also had a very crazy week. And I said, so I just wanna kind of reconvene. You can have any day you want. Next week I will make it happen.

And she responds back, I'm not doing anything today. And I would really love to tackle some of these things. And I go, oh, Missi is gonna filet me. I'm gonna get so roasted by Missi McKown. And so I just go I get, you know, the like Devil Angel on your shoulder. Right? I was doing the Devil Angel, and I was like, okay.

I was so excited to stay home, but I said the alternative is going to be, first of all, I have been promising that I would we're a little loosey goosey with scheduling this client. And I'm like, I have been promising her for a couple weeks and she's excited today. And I'm not like, I'm not so like exhausted, can't get outta bed, that I can't do it.

And I'm like, and also it's gonna be a problem for me at another point. It's gonna be a problem for me Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, another day that I have another stressful week. Why don't I just go and do it? And so my hypocritical. But left the house to go to my client. I was able to crank out, we did a nice little tour, made a list of the things that needed to get done, and I said to her, what would make you happy if I could complete one thing for you today?

And she was very cool. She didn't expect me to do all seven things and sh we came up with it would make me really happy to do X, Y, and Z. And I said, no problem. And I did those things and she was thrilled. And I was thrilled that I'm not gonna have to do it on Monday. Yep. And now I'm home.

But again, big giant hypocrite. Yeah. Because I was really so proud of Missi. And if I had gone to her this morning and said, what should I do? She would've said, stay home.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. But you didn't, instead you said. Remember yesterday when I told you not to go to that client's house and you went anyway? And I said, what did you do?

Yes, you did.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Because you knew I was feeling guilty about something and I had to come clean. But I think I get it though. Yeah. And the commonality is so here's my defensiveness for myself. First of all, I am very bad at saying no, I don't like disappointing people. I am actively working on that as a human being.

And because I do realize that I really do suboptimize my own life quite a bit because I can't say no and I don't want that because it really does, as you said, can lead to burnout. And I am personally on the razor's edge of that point right now. Yeah. And I don't want that. Right. For myself or my family or the people that I like to serve.

Yeah. But I would also say that it all depends on the person that you're willing to do it for. And the reason I said yes to this person today was because she's insanely nice. Her house is lovely. I enjoy spending time working with her. It's not a very challenging, stressful situation to go into.

Right. And she has paid me many thousands of dollars in the last six weeks. Recent days. Yeah. Many thousands. And so I think you were kind of in the same position with this other client. Not only were there some, you know, really tangible things that you wanted to finish for her, but you were like, she has spent a lot of money with me already.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. And I understand why she's stressed and I know that we can help take that away. And i'm like, this is something we can do. You know, I got a few team members to agree to come back and we can do it. We can fix these areas of her house where she's just been literally just stuck and can't figure it out.

And she's we talked about this yesterday. We love it when clients are exuberant, you know, about the work that's been done. Yes. And when they're like, that'll do, you're just you cry. What do you mean that'll do? It's

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: great. How dare you're,

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: you know? Yeah. And so when you're working with someone who's just oh my gosh, this is the best.

And yes, you understand my brain, like there's no thing as an altruistic act. Right. And we talked about this last time, like you get something from that too. Yeah. There are people that you just want to help that you're like, okay, it is within my power to do let's do it. Let's just bend. I, you know, it's three o'clock and I am.

Mostly done with work.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah, and that's a great point. I'm sitting here, I've been at my house for an hour, you know, I was there, I think I lost four hours of my do nothing day. And I'm still fine. It's three in the afternoon. After we get done here, I will probably go take a little nap and then start the rest of my evening.

I, but I think it's a combination. Like I can, I know that there are a lot of organizers that want give me a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 step process to how I would decide. I can't do that. But what I can do is I did some mental calculus of, okay, let me put all these things together. She's an important client.

She's given me a very lucrative referral. She's an incredibly nice person. I like her house, blah, blah, blah. All those things. I go, I do that calculus and I go, this is the right decision. Yeah. I would not have said yes today. To a vast number of other people.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Sure. To the people that canceled last minute.

Correct. To the people. Yeah. Yeah. I understand.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I have a guy that I've told Missi about who just keeps asking me for a weekend or he'll email me and ask me to come the next day. I'm not gonna do it for him.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. I

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: will do it for someone that, that mental calculus gives you the five green check marks of Yeah.

This makes sense for me to blur that line a little bit.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

One of the things you wanted to bring up too is you can swing the other way too and be like on the super rigid scale.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yes. So one of the things that we were talking about is, so we could say that you and I have some problems with boundaries on one end. I also believe one of my core beliefs of what makes success, what easy for me to say. What makes a successful organizer is something that is not inherent to a lot of organizers, which is flexibility.

And what I mean by that is there are a lot of organizers who come from their brain is so organized as well that they're like, I need a set of steps. I need to know this is a rule and then this is a rule and we don't violate those rules, that type of thing. And that's just how your brain works, right?

Yeah. What I see a lot is, I appreciate, and I think it is really smart when people have those boundaries of things that you know, I always say if you're going to be resentful of it, then you shouldn't do it.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: But

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I also believe very much that you can make so many boundaries and so have so many rigid rules that you are actually not servicing your client in a way that makes sense.

And sometimes bending those boundaries or bending those rules in the right case is actually going to get you so much more in the long run. For sure. Yeah. And knowing where that line is. And by the way, you get to make the, you get to make all the rules. Right. And if you have, if you are a very strong, like I will never ever, under any circumstance work on a Monday afternoon.

And you have a client that's the only day I can work is Monday. You're like, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to go somewhere else. That is totally within your right to do. You just also have to understand you might be sub-optimizing certain parts of your business. Sure. And that's your right.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. Yeah.

And I think there's also room to recognize that, you know, we can change our own mind next week. You know, the exact same situation could come up and I, you know, Hey, I changed my mind. I know I canceled yesterday. But can you still pull things together? And if, you know, if it's not a good week for you, you can just be like, no.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Our

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: next availability is blah. Right. And I do that a lot. I mean, I'm tattling on myself about my bad behaviors. I'm not telling you about all the times that I have good behaviors, and I have really, I have been working on that in myself recently because I recognize that me burning out or me not wanting to do certain parts of my job anymore would be detrimental.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Maybe we should talk about the things we are doing Well, 'cause to be honest, I do, I agree with you. I do feel like I've been better with boundaries and saying, yes, we can do that. No, we can't. Here's why. Here's when we can do those things. And so this one just really caught me by surprise because I, I said no, and then caved and then that felt weird.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. Well, and the one thing too, again, not to keep on this one situation you had because it was very unique. But one of the things that I do believe, and I said it to you in our back and forth, was I really do believe this about a lot of our clients. In a lot of ways, we are having to retrain our clients, right?

We are having to retrain their brains. We're having to retrain their behaviors, all of the things. And so one of the things I said to you is sometimes you have to treat a client like a small child. And I have seen this before with some of my clients of you're rewarding bad behavior. And I don't mean you in this situation, but just it's about the overall it, I reward a lot of bad behavior if I have a client, you know, we were talking about, I don't have a cancellation policy, but I have had a client that I've had to say, Hey, I can't have you cancel three minutes beforehand, four times in a row.

We've gotta talk about that, right? When you reward that behavior, sometimes you then enable a client, by the way. That includes behavior. Like it's not even about an appointment, right. If the client is texting you at all hours of the day and night and you're responding. If the client is asking you, we see this in IO a lot, a client like gets the scope of the project and then they immediately creep the scope of the project.

There was a woman in IO the other day that had a situation where the, she had given the client a proposal and the client was like, oh, this is too much. Can we scale it back? And she's yeah, I can do X, Y, and Z. But then the client still wanted her to do the X, Y, and Z even though she didn't want to pay for it and Right.

All of this is within our control of saying, Hey. We need to talk about we're not gonna do this, or you do not have to respond to a client just 'cause they text you at nine o'clock at night. That type of thing.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Oh yeah. Yes. That was my favorite, like to be able to respond, to be like, Hey, I'm with family, I'll get to this tomorrow.

You know, because I do wanna say I saw this, I mean, not even nine, like sometimes I'm cutting it off at six. Yeah. Today I'm gonna be cutting it

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: off at four.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: It's

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Friday.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: But so yeah. I just want people to think about, it's not just, there are a lot of behaviors that we end up doing in our business that then give our clients permission.

And I have found that in myself before of I will be annoyed that a client is texting me. And then I'm like, well, how many other times have I texted them back at seven o'clock on a Sunday?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Right, right, right.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. That's a me problem.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: I know. Yeah. And that was one of the things we talked about too, is usually if we're frustrated about something with a client, it's usually something we did.

Yes. And it's easier to to not look at ourselves.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. Why do you think it's so hard for us? I mean, I know the answer for me, but why is it hard for you to have these kinds of boundaries?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Oh man. Should we talk about my childhood? Yes. Lay down on the couch. Yeah. Henry's moved. I can lay down time for therapy.

Yeah. No, but truly though, I think a lot of it does come from, I'll speak for myself. Growing up in a house where there was a lot of unpredictability and a lot of having to grow up quickly from parents getting divorced and them having, you know, my mom having more responsibility outside of the home.

I became a grownup a little bit faster than normal. And so I have always been the person who's looking after other people and making sure they're okay. Very much organizing, fits. Like I, you know, here's an opportunity to help somebody feel better. Great. Sign me up. And so then when that person is saying, oh, your choice is not what I was expecting, it literally tugs at my heartstrings.

Yeah. Yeah. Dang it. You know, because I do really care about, I know we're I keep bringing it back to this one because it was just what happened this week. But I really do care about that client and want them to be happy and want them to have a home that makes them feel calm and peaceful and relaxed that they can enjoy without stress.

So when given the opportunity to make it happen that day, and I could, I was just like, okay, yeah. You know, you Okay. Our favorite movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off Cameron in the car. I'll go. I'll go. I'll go.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I'll go. Okay. Okay. I'll go. Yes. That. If you don't dunno what we're talking about, just go run.

I, if you do not know every word to Ferris Bueller's day off, I need you to go and rectify that Right. At this very moment,

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: I'm sure to streaming absolutely nowhere, but buy it.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Oh, I bet it is. I bet you can find it. Oh yeah.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Okay.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: It's a classic. I think that's really true. I think that you know, so many things, whether we want them or not come back to our childhood.

Right. And Sure. I mean, that, that's when all of the things are formed, right? That's when your core

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: personality, our beliefs and our beliefs about the world and how we should act and respond in it are made by like age eight, you know? Yes. And so it takes some real deep neuro pathway work to shift and change those.

And so it's still, it's very much my knee jerk default reaction Yes. Is to people, well.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: And yeah. And I am, I'm a very deep people pleaser and I also, I make this joke, but it's not really a joke. You know, sometimes most jokes have a lot of truth in 'em. I go, validation is my love language when someone tells me that I am a pretty princess.

Yeah. You know, oh my gosh, this room is so amazing. One of my clients called me magical last week and I was like, thanks. I know you

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: could

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: live off of magical

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: for three days. Empower that. I really

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: care that. Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I really I wish I didn't, but I'm very I very much thrive on this person appreciates me, so I'm sure that somebody can do a deep analysis of you didn't get enough love or whatever that looks like.

Right. But I do really like when I am able to help people and when I go, oh, I am doing something that makes their life easier and I really thrive and they appreciate it. Yeah. They, I thrive on that. Yeah, I hear that. That's why when we had the conversation about it, it was a friend of ours who a client had been like, oh, okay.

Not as appreciative as any of us would want, you know? I'm like no. I need more than that. And it's no, I'm a service provider. You're paying me. And you can just be like, okay, cool, thanks. Or not even that. And you're still paying me and I'm done. But I'm like, no I need more, I need to tell me that I did a good job and pat me on the head.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. It's always fun when you when you can see like the excitement in their eyes or they're literally jumping up and down or you're getting a hug, you know, there's yeah. So yeah, maybe we do need more

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: therapy.

I know I do. Yeah. But I think that's part of it too. And that's why. Sometimes I, and I am, like I said, you know, I do wanna praise myself a little bit that I am doing so much better on this because I think even four or five years ago, I would've just say jump and I'll say how high?

And I'm Yeah. So much better at saying, sorry, that doesn't work for me. I mean, the client

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: that

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: No, but checking your

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: time.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. The client that keeps asking for a Saturday, I've said, I am really sorry, but I cannot work on Saturdays. It just isn't going to happen. Yeah. Please pick a weekday and I'll be there.

Yeah. I have gotten so much better early in my organizing career. I would do anything, I would do anything. I would go anywhere. I wouldn't care. And yeah, I don't do that anymore. So

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: So it was literally like client number. Two, I think. And at the time I was fully employed, so I was only taking organizing clients on Saturday.

Okay. And so we had something scheduled for Saturday and at the last minute he's like, Hey, Hey, I need to reschedule you know, can you give me some other dates? And I said, well, I could do Sunday. So I show up at his house on Sunday, I do the work, and he goes, can I be honest with you?

And he was very happy with the work, but he was like trying to give me some like business guidance. And I said, sure. And he goes, your hours suck. Amazing. It was, and I laughed right out loud and I said, well, thank you. I said, my actual hours are Saturdays only because I do work a full-time job and I'm just doing this on Saturdays.

I said, but Saturday didn't work for you. So I moved it to Sunday and he felt like such a jerk. And he was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I said, no. It like, literally that's a me issue and my availability, so I hear you. But yeah, it was just funny. You know, I've never ever worked a Sunday again.

'cause I was like, that was terrible. I don't wanna do that.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. Early in my career I worked seven days a week. Sunday was just another day. Yeah. And I absolutely don't do that anymore. Yeah. And I will only do a Saturday under the most dire of special circumstances. Sure. And I. I can tell you that my group chat, which includes you and two other people, I did a Saturday at one point recently and I got roasted immediately.

I had, why are you doing that? Why? And I was like, oh my gosh, lemme defend myself.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Some people

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: have better

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: boundaries. Yes. Well, what are some other things? So I will say, you know, we've really talked about like mostly, you know, going to work on a day that maybe you don't want to, but what are some other things?

'cause I have other things that I do that are very much like not great boundaries or like what I like to say blurring the lines.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: I mean, I will blur the lines on can you help me with this? And it's not really organizing related.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Me too.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: And again, when you were saying like, there's not a five point checklist, but one of the checklists is, do I really enjoy working with this client?

And that is always the case. If I'm helping someone. With laundry, if I'm helping someone with their taxes, with paying their bills, with looking up their charitable generations with calling their accountant for them, or, you know, doing all these extra organizing adjacent tasks.

It is for the best people, you know, that are just like, I, you know, the phone is a hangup for them.

They're like I can't make these calls and I need to make these calls. And I was like I'll sit on hold for, you know, however long we need to, and you, and I'll chat while we're doing it or we'll work on something else, you know? And then that bleeds into, can you pick up my dry cleaning?

Yeah. And can you, I've done that before. All these returns to Temu and can you drop off this package and Yeah. And the, so the list goes on.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. I definitely, that's another place I for sure blur the lines on things that I'll do. I would add to that. Multiple donation drops. Like I have some paint and I have some electronics and I have this glass straw that needs to go to this specific place and I've got like this and that.

You know, you can really end up going oh I know a place that can go versus the one drop off that I say that you get with my service.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yes. A thousand percent. Yes. Because I will make whatever they need to have have happen, we can make it happen. So you want all of this to go away. We'll find the appropriate places to get them.

Yes. Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I do. This is kind of, a little bit off topic, but I also, I'll do those multiple donation drops, especially with people that I say, I know this is never gonna happen if they try to do it themselves.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah, absolutely.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: It will not occur. I want them to really get the full benefit of that experience.

Yeah. And I want them to get these things out of their house. So I am okay with, if I've got a weird thing in the back of my car that I have to drive by Dakota County

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Drop off,

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: you know,

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: and literally have medications in the front seat of the passenger. Yeah. Seat of my car right now because if they're there, I'll remember to take them.

Yes.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. So are there some things that you have learned? Like I, the way that I have had to learn how to set some better boundaries is because I recognize in myself that oh, I'm really mad. Like not, it went, it started to get beyond resentful of I'm mad now that I said yes to X, Y, and Z. Is there something that you did that was perhaps more healthy on learning how to set some good boundaries?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Part of it was me just realizing I didn't have energy for things that I actually wanted to have energy for. Whether it's spending time with family or friends or both, or yeah, there are just some life things that I was like, I'm too tired for. And then I was like, okay, I'm I set my own schedule here, so that means I need to dial back some of the things that I'm doing.

One of the things that I took on this year was taking on a course that is new and intense and a lot of work and good but it takes a lot of time. Yeah. And so right now I'm on a break, which is why when Melissa was like, how about today? Because she's I know you got all these things going on.

I was like, I'm on a school break, you know? Noticing how much I can do while doing that too is different. And then since I know you've talked about this before on the podcast, sorry to our two male listeners, but I also went and got my hormone levels checked just to be like, is that doing anything to the energy level here and can that help too?

'Cause I think there was a multitude of factors happening at once.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. Also respectfully, I think we have four male listeners, so thank you. My mistake. Probably it's probably none. So I did the same thing. So I started and we did a, I did a whole perimenopause menopause episode with Kim Snodgrass if you didn't listen to it.

But I also just got on some hormones and I have noticed. Personally I have noticed some positive changes. I know it, you know, everyone's mileage may vary. I have definitely started to feel better, but that is something that, I mean, part of that is I find myself having a little bit lower patience level.

And I'm hoping that will kind of rectify with some of these new things coursing through my veins. And that has led to I think some of these things where I'm like, I'm mad at myself that I said yes to X, Y, and Z. And it, my patience level with, which obviously in the work we do has to be very high.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Right. I mean,

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: yesterday I was like about 800 times, you're never gonna use that. You're never gonna use that. You're never gonna use that. I had to keep it all in my head. Yeah. And I used to have infinite patience for that. And I find myself having a harder time like with some of those things and. Is

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: that a

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: tell for you?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Like what does that, what happens when you notice that you're doing that?

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I notice that in myself. Yeah. When, and I'm specifically talking about organizing. I have found some this is another word that's overused, but I'll just use it here, triggers in myself. Okay. Where I say, if I start to get like low patience or and obviously I'm always very patient with a client, but in my head when I start going I cannot believe she's keeping that, this is so dumb.

Guess what? It's her. How she gets to do whatever she wants, even if it, even if I think it's silly. Right? Also when I start to get judgmental about. Why do you go to Costco 75 times a week? You don't need to go to Costco. Why do you need 17 of X, y, z thing? When I get really judgmental in my head, rather than taking that step back and going there are a million reasons that the client's in this situation.

That's when I know it's probably time for me to take a little bit of a break. Yeah. And I'm proud of myself that I recognize it because again, what I would never want is for that to manifest in front of a client.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Right. Yeah. Right. And I have

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: a really good filter and a really good poker face.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: But when, you know, at some point when you have to stuff everything and keep it in your head, it's gotta let out somewhere.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear you. I think there were a multitude of things happening for me this week. If I can share, but please. Yeah. It was the anniversary of my brother's death and 10 years ago that he died.

And so there was this added layer of grief on top of everything else that was going on. And I think every year there's been like some feelings and stuff, but somehow 10 was deeply more significant than I think I realized. Sure. Until I was crabby for three days straight. And you know, me that's a long stretch for

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: me.

And it's so not you. I mean, it's so not your personality. Yeah. Like I can tend to be crabby. You are not a crabby person.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Not generally. Yeah. So I woke up today, one of the things I told Melissa was like, oh my gosh, I'm not crabby anymore. And yeah. So all of that to say that there can just be a multitude of things happening that.

That it's good for us to take some time like you're doing to reflect and be like, oh, I think I might need to pause some things here coming up. And like for me we actually, it's Friday. We have a vacation on Monday and I'm like, well that's fantastic timing 'cause I just was right on the edge here of really needing that.

And it's weird how like it leading right up to it, you're, I think sometimes that makes it worse 'cause you're like, I know I'm going outta town so I might as well get all of these things done. Right now, appointments I've been putting off to make for myself for months suddenly seem very important. You know, the day that you're leaving on vacation.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Well, and like we talk about with clients, it's not, the stuff is a symptom, right? Like the disorganization and the clutter and the stuff is a symptom of something else underneath. And that could be a million different things. Yeah. Same thing with us. And I just talked to my daughter who's at college about this two hours ago where she's had a couple things that have kind of.

Been upsetting to her this week. And I'm like, boy, that's weird. That shouldn't really be bugging her that much. And she and I got in a little bit of, a little bit of an argument earlier this week and I was like, I finally said to her, I was like, I'm gonna say something and I don't want you to get mad at me.

I go, I think you are so tired. It's the end of the year. She's an ra so she's had to stay two weeks longer than all of her friends are gone. Yeah. She's had to stay longer. Her days are not very exciting. She is ready to come home for summer break. And I was like, I think all of these things are just making you like a bunch more tense and that's causing you to kind of flip on a couple of these things that normally wouldn't bother you that much.

And she's yeah, I know you're right. And I'm like, of course I'm right. I know I'm right. I made you I know you. Yeah. But that's how it is with me too, is like the stuff under the stuff is, you know, you had grief and a very significant anniversary and all of those things which are hard in any given day.

I got a kid graduating, leaving the house. I have a lot of stress in my work life. I have you know, I have a lot of things going on right now. Right. And all of that, you know, compounds. Yeah. And that, just recognizing that I think and just being, because I'm a person who also can tend to be like, I'm gonna incriminate, like I'm gonna be a self recriminating about why I shouldn't be like this and I shouldn't be cranking, I shouldn't be this.

And I'm like, we just are what we are and we have to recognize like the why. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. And some things you can change and some things you can't.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. So what have you found helpful for you when you've gotten to a point of either razor thin burnout or full on burnout? What have you done to get yourself back?

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Sometimes I have to, and I'm in the process of figuring out how I can do this, but one of the things that I have to do is legitimately take a step fully back. Like I have to say. I need a week off of clients no matter what's going on. Yeah. Not everyone's schedule works that way. I get it. I tend to be a little bit more flexible with my schedule.

I understand there are lots of people, especially if you have a team. I don't have a team. And so I, other people are not depending on me. My clients are depending on me, but I don't have other people depending on me. And I can sometimes just have to say, I need. A few days. Yeah. To not have to do it.

To not have to do all of the things that is incredibly hard as a business owner. Yeah. 'cause you always have this compulsion, I think of the wheels are gonna fall off the bus if I'm gone for four days. Right. That is not the case. It's just period. The end, not, I don't care if you have a team of 55 people.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: It's just they know what to

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: do. Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yes. If you're by yourself. So sometimes I have to make a very, I'm kind of the switches on or the switches off kind of a person. But sometimes it's as simple as allowing myself the permission to take a nap in the middle of the day. And that sounds so silly, but it's true.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: No, I was literally thinking that exact same thing. I'm like, how would I answer this if Melissa asked me? And I'm like, I would talk about napping.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. You and I are deeply committed to naps. It's, I think, again, another thing that we align on and another thing that I will die on the hill.

Sometimes you just need a nap.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Truly and some food likeable. Yeah, a hundred percent. And then a nap. And then you're a new person.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: A hundred percent. And my younger daughter is about to go off to college, but she still has, we always talk about her. I hope my kids never listen to this podcast.

They're gonna be really mad at me. But sometimes we say she still like a very little child inside because when she is stressed out, it will start to manifest as like when she was a teeny, tiny kid. And we'd be like, babe, it's time for bed. And so I'll still do that to 18-year-old, taller than me ready to go out in the world, kid.

I'll be like, babe, I really think it's time for bed. I think it's time for you to just go night night, like go down the hall and go to sleep. And so that's what, at least for me, sometimes if I just take a stupid hour nap I wake up and the world is just different.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah, no, I completely agree. And sometimes if you get a really good nap, it feels like a completely different day and you get like bonus work done. Absolutely.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: And so I just think there are some of those things. I'll tell you, I also will sometimes if I'm feeling super stressed in the middle of the day or like really you know, really having a day, I will just do a meditation session.

I love the calm app. I will do, they have something literally called emergency calms. And so you can do like a 10 minute session of okay, you're feeling like highly anxious, let's breathe through that, or whatever. That I have found that I really enjoy as well, if you don't have time for a nap.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Oh yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: But sometimes it's a bigger, more holistic, like I have to figure some things out and when, if I'm really feeling burned out, I really have to get down to okay, what is actually bothering me and how do I fix that? So it's like some inner work of, let me be honest with myself, which is never my favorite thing to be.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: I like to also just find out like what is the bare minimum that needs to take place? Yes. If I'm really running outta steam, it's which, which emails can wait till tomorrow or the next day, and which one do I really just need to get that out today? You know,

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: a hundred percent. This has come up in the IO group a few times recently, but people have said, I have to give my client a comprehensive proposal.

What do you think about X, Y, and Z? And my first response is usually, why do you have to give a comprehensive proposal? What does that mean to you? Because I think that there are a lot of things that we do in our business that we think they're required and the client doesn't need it or want it.

So I would urge people to think about some of those things in their business. Like I have a friend who is also a podcaster for the business that she has, and she's like, I have to get a podcast out this week. And I'm like, why do you have to. I mean, I'm sure that there are people who would love for me to put out five podcast episodes a week.

I don't have that ability or that energy or that time. So sometimes it'll be a month in between podcasts. Is that ideal for my business? Probably not, but sometimes that's what has to happen.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: So MVP minimum viable product is what I would urge people to think.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you and I both did that with clients this week.

Okay we got some extra time. What is the minimum that needs to take place for you? Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: What can you live with? Right. Ideal. And then there's again, I think a lot of times we put pressure on ourselves that a client is not expecting. My client was thrilled today that I got two of the things on her list done.

She was only expecting me to get one done. Yeah. I got the first one done and I'm like, I'm still trucking. I'm already here. Lemme just do it. Yeah, I was done and I went down and she was in the living room and I'm like, okay, you're all set. And she's oh, okay, so next time you can do the girls' bathroom.

I'm like, Nope. Already done.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah,

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: she was thrilled.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Right, right. And you set that expectation early, that's what you did really well, was communicating clearly of, Hey, I only have time for one of these things today. Yep. Yeah. And then you under promised and overdelivered, which is always the key to surprise and delight.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I learned under promise and overdeliver as a phrase, early in my, so I was not a business major I was a psychology major, and so I didn't have any business knowledge when I got a big girl business job when I graduated from college. And so there were all these things that I'm sure everybody learned in college that I never learned.

But under promise and overdeliver was something that I was like, oh my gosh, that's a fun phrase. But I, it's, I have used it since then because the alternative is not great and no one likes it over promising no one like that you're delivering is terrible. Yeah. So I would rather go, it's surprise and delight, right?

Yeah. My client was delighted that I got two things done.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Absolutely. We did the same thing yesterday. We were like, okay, bottom line, we'll get all the remaining furniture built. Did we also do two closets and a space in the basement? Yes, we did.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Amazing.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: But there were multiples of us so we could divide and conquer.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah. Let's just talk for a hot second about you had six people on your team all do. How many times have you ever had six people on one project in a day?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: I mean less than 10, but probably more than five. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, because that was one of the things this client was nervous about. She's have you done this before?

I was like, yes. This is not our first rodeo. You are not my Guinea pig. And she's oh, okay. But the Guinea pig didn't know they were the Guinea pig either. I was just

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: about to say, by the way, this is another thing that we've talked about before at some juncture, lie to people. I mean, even just don't lie.

Don't necessarily be, not lie. I just didn't say, by the way, this is the first time we've ever done

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: six. Let's see how it goes.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Right? That's what I mean is I don't mean lie, I just mean you also don't need to volunteer extra information that no one has asked for. So the first person that ever got six people, you didn't say, I'm just letting you know this is the first time we've ever done this.

Don't do that.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: No. No one's asking for that information. Don't do that. What we were asking for is, here's the scope of work we want done and we want it done in one day. And I looked at the scope of work and I said, I think that's gonna take six. And she goes, okay. And so we did, and it was great, and the team loved it.

They

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: loved the six people day because everybody got together. You all got to work together and that's fun. Yeah. So I would say,

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: yeah, we've done, we do four all of the time. Okay. And five and six is a little bit more rare, but when we get to those numbers, the team, the energy just comes in.

Even on that sweet client, the first day we arrived, as, you know, each person's coming in, we're introducing ourselves. She goes, oh, I just love the energy already. You know, and that's fun. It just sets you off on the right foot to be like, we're here, we're ready to work, we're ready to help let's dive in.

And we've already talked about the plan enough that everybody knows what we're doing.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I love

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: it.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Thanks. So what would you say to someone who maybe like you, I. Or myself are struggling a little bit with these things. What would you recommend maybe even to yourself or to me, your friend?

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah.

This, I feel like this is gonna sound a little bit cliche, but hopefully not. I feel like there's a lot of I'm trying to think of another word and I can't, so I'm just gonna say it twice. I feel like there's a lot of value benefit to identifying our values and figuring out what really is important to us, and making sure that the choices that we're making are aligning with that.

Because when that's outta whack, then I think that's when we get really we get crabby, we get short with people that we love and care about. We start saying no to things that we typically would go to and enjoy and be refreshed and refueled by. And it, and then that just leads to more and more maybe.

Unaligned decision making, and then we wrap ourselves into a tizzy and then we're like, oh my gosh, I'm on the edge of burnout. I wonder why. Yeah. Just speaking about myself here. Yeah. But I think the more that we can say, okay, you know what, spending time with friends and family is important to me, so let's make sure that there is time carved out for that each week.

What does that look like? Do I actually need to put it on the calendar? Like I, I do because left uninterrupted, I do not have it in the house. I will just keep working and keep working. 'cause there's always more to do. So there are some intentional evenings and days of the month that are scheduled out to be like, Nope, we gotta stop there.

You know?

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: I think being self-aware also is super important. Yeah. Like recognizing before someone outside of you has to say. Boy, you've really been something lately or before you really, you know, upset. I mean, and I think in a lot of cases we certainly don't show these things to our clients. We show them to the people that we go home to.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: And to our friends and to other things. And you know, I found myself, I had a dinner this week with friends, you know, kind of a standing monthly dinner, and I was like, I'm so tired, I just don't wanna go. And then I'm like, no, you made a commitment. And then I was oh, but I make a commit to so many things.

And I just, and I'm like, no, just go. Because I was like, my friends are important. Yeah. And my friends show up for me. When I need them to. And so I need to show up even if, and so if I am too tired, too cranky, and to all the things, then I need to examine some of these other things. Yeah. And so recognizing I love what you said about what are your values and what are the things that are truly important to you because I definitely am someone that can put work above everything else.

And so then I say yes to all the work things and start saying no to the other things that might actually be more important.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. Yeah. I I said yes to all the fun things last weekend and usually I do have to sneak some work in because I don't, yeah. It just needs to happen to keep things running. And I filled the weekend with all non-work things.

So this was Monday and Tuesday you were, we're crammed with a little bit of work and this is how it got to the end of the week. And I was just like, ah. Yeah. The fun things were so fun, like getting together with an old friend that I hadn't seen in a really long time and celebrating something significant in their life, and then seeing another friend perform live music like soul filling things that I, you know, that gassed me up for the whole week or, well, until I tanked on, understandably, yes.

Yeah. But still it's good to actually, like you were saying you went and did the thing with your friends to remind yourself that, oh yeah, I do doing this. 'cause it's really easy for me to get in my head and be like, I know I like doing that, but those things are gonna be there later.

And then that is, to your point, putting work above everything else, which is not the way that my values actually align. Yeah. Sometimes it's what my life looks like, but if it's not matching, that disconnect is gonna show up somewhere.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Well, and I will say when I see, sometimes when I see other people who have those really clear boundaries, especially on like family versus work stuff, you know, just home life versus work life.

Yeah. There was someone that I saw the other day was like, I'm totally booked up for two months and whatever, and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, the answer to me is open up more times on your calendar. And I'm like, well, that's not the answer for her. She doesn't want to have more time on her calendar, open up.

She wants to have that balance. And this is something that I struggle with. So of course, my first answer was probably toxic, right? I didn't actually say that to her by the way, but I, my first thought was just put more time on your calendar. Like maybe just do a Saturday, I don't know. And then I'm like, well, that's ridiculous.

So it's, I just wanna be, I'm very, being very transparent here that I have some problematic thinking that I'm trying to work on.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: And that's hard. Yeah, it is hard work. So darn neural pathways, they're just so downtrodden in the They're there.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Yeah, they're there. Well, I, but just in general, we're all such a freaking work in progress.

It doesn't matter if you are 20 years old or 30 years old, or 50 or 60. Like we all have things that are good and things that we maybe need to work on. And this is something that you and I are just trying to work on. Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you for being here. As usual, you have been a very frequent guest. On this program.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Thank you for having me back. It is a pleasure to just chat with you in general Anytime. But here in a way that hopefully there's some takeaways for other organizers to just, you know, don't do all the things we do.

Yeah.

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: We just want to tell everyone, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. And by the way, if you think I have all my act together because I, you know, help people out, I don't, I, we are all working through it together and we all doing the best with things. Yeah. And I think, again, I've said this a million times, but social media gives us I this idea that like everybody has it together except for me.

And that is just, it's so not true. Yeah.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Doing the best we can with what we have. Right?

Melissa Klug | Pro Organizer Studio: Absolutely correct. Well, thank you for being here.

Missi McKown | Clear Spaces Organizing: Yeah. Thanks for having me.