191 | Helping Clients Through Grief With Missi McKown Of Clear Spaces Organizing

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Written By Melissa Klug

Helping clients who need professional organizing while they're struggling with grief can be very challenging--and today we want to help you with some concrete ideas to help your clients. My guest is Missi McKown of Clear Spaces Organizing in Maple Grove, Minnesota, and she is graciously sharing some of her personal stories of loss to help organizers work with clients. 

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Hey pro organizers. It's Melissa. And I'm coming to you on a Monday morning. I am fully caffeinated, well, rested and ready to go into the month of April. And I hope you are too. April is going to be a crazy month for us here at Pro Organizer Studio. We are revamping all of our programs, we are revamping branding, we are doing all of the things. By the way, when I say we it's me. I am it. So I am doing all these things. Because I am a solopreneur, as many of you are. So anyway, shout out to all of us who are running our businesses, doing all the things, and getting lots of great things out there. 

So just remember I am here for you. I understand the solopreneur life. 

Anyway, I wanted to bring you a special podcast today. A few weeks ago, I had my good friend and fellow Twin Cities organizer Missi McKown on with me. We talked about ADHD. We talked about all sorts of things, but. I kept this one back because it was a special one and I wanted to make sure that I honored the subject. And Missi is talking about grief and we are talking about working with clients. Who are going through grief, whether that is recent, very fresh grief, or whether that is long ago, grief that continues to go with you. 

This is something that is really close to Missi personally, and she will tell you why, but we wanted to have this conversation because as an organizer, you might be working with someone who was going through the grief process. 

And sometimes it's hard to know what to do. We wanted to give you some concrete things that you could do with clients to help them. 

One of the things that I do want to say at the beginning of this, we recorded this before Missi and I were on a radio show together. And after we recorded that session on Minnesota public radio a few weeks ago. There was someone who was in the MPR offices and she asked to talk to us afterward. And this person. talked to us for a long time about her own grief and about what she had been through losing a partner. And it's just a reminder that we, as organizers do such important work with people. 

It's not just about getting the stuff out of the house. It's really about working with people through some of the hardest times of their life. And the openness that we can have as organizers can really help people process their grief while we are not licensed therapists in any way, we all know that we operate as therapists. Uh, quite frequently in our business. 

And so we just wanted to have a conversation about this. I think it's an important one. And I hope that it helps you. The next time you work with a client who is working through some difficult things. 

I am excited to start this wonderful new month of April. And I hope you are too. And as always, if there's anything I can do for you, hit me up at hello@proorganizerstudio.com. Here is my friend, Missi McKown of Clear Spaces Organizing. 

Melissa Klug: You have had very personal experiences with grief.

And I have recently had some friends that have been going through very difficult times with grief. And it is really hard because you know, you don't, You probably don't know how to feel. They don't know how to feel. They're just, they're all a tremendous amount of emotion. So can you tell us a little bit about your story?

Missi McKown: Sure.

A lot of people I love have died. I guess that's the best way to start it. The first big loss in my life was my grandma, and I was only 21, so I expected her to live a bit longer but she also had cancer, and had been given four months to live, and had already lived I don't know, another 10 years past that.

It was a long time. And all of the time with Grandma felt special and extra. But we were extremely close. If you have ever been to my house around Christmas time, you will see a Wheel of Fortune ornament on the tree. That is in honor of Grandma Jo. She gave it to me when she was still alive, obviously.

That'd be weird. And it was just a show that she would watch all the time and we would watch it together. And if we were apart we would watch it in our own separate houses and call each other and make our guesses over the phone. Oh, I love that. solved the puzzles. Yeah, and when my parents were going through a divorce, I just spent a lot of time at grandma's house.

I was a teenager then and it was just, I don't know, we got really close. So losing her at 21 felt, it was extremely significant. And then my uncle, my grandma's son Uncle TJ, he was just Permanent Bachelor, and because of that, he was just always available to the nieces and nephews, and and after Grandma passed away, he carried on the tradition of Sunday night dinners, and we would keep meeting at his house, and the whole family was super close.

There just weren't that many of us. And so when Uncle TJ passed away in 2014, that was another Just big loss. He was kind of like a surrogate dad in my life, a really stable male presence, and just a really good, tender hearted guy. The next loss, this one was the hardest it's my brother, and he passed away in 2015, and it was just my brother and I growing up, so I did get some step siblings along the way, and in a way after his loss, I felt a lot like an only child because, between my mom and my dad, you know, I'm the only kid left from that relationship and that has been strange and something I'm still unpacking in therapy.

Right. But I was thinking about it even this morning when I was driving around. I feel like we have this tendency to make people who have passed away better in our mind than they were. It's almost like we don't see their flaws anymore because the absence that they're, of their presence is so strong that we just remember all the good things.

And I don't actually think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's okay to remember people at their best. And because that's what you're missing, you know? I'm not looking back fondly at fights we had when we were kids. It's just You know, missing his presence and even his presence now that, you know, we both would have been into our 40s now and it would have been cool to just see what our relationship looked like then.

He passed away at 33 and gosh, I don't think that I have ever I've been so devastated in my life. It lasts a long time too.

Melissa Klug: I think that's the other thing is grief is not something that you, there's a timeline on where you just say, well, it's a year and then things are better. And I'm sure that there are times like, you know, I, you texted me that it was a celebration of life and, you know, and you'll be doing that for, you know, decades more, right?

Like you still remember that person and I. I read something once when a friend was going through a very hard time and I just, I thought this was a really great description. They said you're in a, you have a box and there's a button that grief is. And at first the, there's a ball in the box and it's huge.

And that ball is constantly touching the button. Like it's just relentless. And then eventually the ball starts to get smaller, but it starts to ping around the box. And so it'll hit the grief button. At times you don't expect it and then it'll still be there and the ball might be the teeniest tiniest little ball, but it'll still hit that button every once in a while.

I just thought that was a beautiful description for people that haven't been through as much just to say you have no idea when it is going to hit you and that it's going to be hard for a really long time. Even just the what ifs and the what would it be like, right, 

Missi McKown: right. Yeah, and what you're talking about is his birthday.

Yeah, we do a celebration every year on his birthday and it was it was recent. Yeah, and that's fun, and that's kind of evolved over the years. I was just talking with a client about it this week actually because her mom passed away in the fall, and now I'm working with her dad, and then she's there to kind of help, kind of have be a, the last chance her and her sister are looking at things before they go out the door to make sure that before stuff gets donated if there's anything that they're interested in that they can pluck it out of the pile and keep it.

And they have a keep it for right now pile too because I'm just like there's no rush on any of this you know, we can take our time with it and Yeah, it's just a beautiful gift to be Invited into people's lives when they are experiencing grief and it The grief, to your point, can feel completely fresh, even if it's been a decade or more.

And it takes different people different lengths of time to be ready to invite someone into their space. I have worked with some folks as soon as five months after their partner has passed away. And I was just blown away that they were ready. I've worked with some folks where it's been years especially, you know, items from parents who have passed away that they've been hanging on to.

And, oh my gosh, I was just talking to a client about this yesterday. Do you remember the TV show Clean Sweep with Peter Walsh? From TLC? Okay. It's part of my story of how I started organizing. Yours is Marie Kondo, mine is Peter Walsh. Yep. And she had remembered this episode where there was this green vacuum that the siblings were like, well, we can't get rid of the green vacuum because we have so many memories of mom using it.

And she said that Peter Walsh told them your mom is not this vacuum, but if this vacuum holds that much memory, what if we took a picture of it and we framed it and you could hang it? in your home. And that's what they did. And it was this beautiful way of still honoring their mom and honoring this item that held so much like deep meaning and memories for them.

But in a way that it didn't add unnecessary clutter to their life. They weren't going to use the vacuum, you know, There's so many cool ways to honor people's stuff. I know you, for your kiddos have done that with would you want to talk about the baby shoes? Yeah 

Melissa Klug: There are some things that I'm really nostalgic about.

And and for some reason, baby shoes is one of them. And so I turned them into Christmas ornaments because I was like, I can't, I don't want to get rid of these things, but. It doesn't make sense. You're not just going to keep them in a box. And that is one of the things. So when you're talking about the picture of the vacuum, I work really hard with my clients to try to honor.

That's one of the biggest things I got from Marie Kondo. I understand a lot of people are not Marie fans. I get it. But there are some really beautiful things in the method. And one of them, the biggest things that I learned was find a way to honor the things that you say are really important to you.

Because if I would have just taken my kids baby shoes and just said, I can't possibly part with these, but then I put them inside a box that's under another box behind another box. That's gathering dust in my storage room. I'm not honoring those I like trying to do something good with those things. It's not to say that there aren't items that you just say, I have to keep this because I'm not ready to part with it.

That was totally normal, but finding creative ways to help your clients. Take some of those sentimental things and turn them into something beautiful that they can remember that person. I try to do a lot. So you too. 

Missi McKown: And if it's a person that celebrates Christmas and does a tree, there's so many cool things you can do with it.

Yes. Yeah. I have flowers from the funeral service for my grandma, for my uncle, TJ, and for my brother that are the first three things on the tree every year. And and I usually forget about it until I open up the Christmas bin and they're sitting there at the top. And then I'm like, Oh my gosh, yeah, that's right.

You 

Melissa Klug: need to have a moment. So yeah, usually I 

Missi McKown: do. Yeah, I don't know, there's just, there's something special about being invited into such a sacred space where you're getting to touch and honor someone's things that they have left behind And yeah, to your point that honoring it and finding a good spot for it, if it's something that they want to keep just holding space for those conversations and holding space for the emotions too.

And I know not every organizer is for this. I mean, there are some that, you know, if you have a crying client, they don't really know what to do. But if you're working with someone in grief, be prepared because it will happen. And Yeah, it's a beautiful thing to be able to give people space to feel their emotions and you can do what feels right to you, you know, for some folks that might just be backing away and giving them space, some people really like to grieve in private or they'll remove themselves from the room and just let them.

You know, let them do what they need to do. You 

Melissa Klug: can also ask, you know, you can also sometimes it's awkward if you don't know what to do. And so then you're like taking a guess and then it's also okay to just say, would you like to be alone for a little bit? Or would you like me to sit next to you and just help you?

You know, you can ask that person and then they can decide. Yeah. That concept of holding space, sometimes people just need to know that someone's beside them and there. And that is the time. I think that you need to be maximally flexible. We've talked a little bit about flexibility, but when you're working with someone who is in grief, whether it's new grief or, you know, aged grief, which is still very important.

You've got to read, you said earlier, read the room. You've got to really read the room harder than you do with any other client because you don't want to push them. You don't want to push them to make difficult decisions that they're not ready for. That's the one time that I think in organizing, you have to know the time when it's right to push your client because you have the clients that are just avoiding the decision entirely.

When you're working with someone in grief, it's a very different thing and you have to be really careful. Yep, I, that's 

Missi McKown: 100 percent true, because also, especially if it's fresh grief, I kept checking in with my client, you know, when it's fresh grief, I'm like, are you sure you're ready? I'm just nervous that you're going to come home.

I will have cleared out all of your partner's clothing from the closet, and you will go and open that door and find it very empty. Are you ready for that? And they were like, yes, we have talked about this extensively with the family we're all on board. And they're like, I need you to know that so that you feel comfortable.

I was like okay, I just, thank you. Thank you for catching me up to speed because the last thing I want to do is for somebody who's already In fresh grief, you know, push them over the edge and all of a sudden they realize I wasn't ready, you know, and I've already taken the clothes to the donation.

The clothes are already 

Melissa Klug: gone. And then they're like, oops, I made a mistake. And that's a super important thing to ask and make sure they're really ready. I will tell you too, I have worked with people. I can think of two people specifically, one woman, her mother passed away. Over a decade before, and she just said very upfront, she goes, this is the first time I've ever been able to consider even going through these things.

And I'm really ready now, but I still checked with her. I was like, I want to make sure if at any point in this process, you feel like I made a mistake. I can't do it. It doesn't matter that it's been a decade. If it's too much, we're not going to do it. And then there was another woman. This actually made me really sad.

She had not been able to let a single thing of her mom's. Go. And so she brought her mom's entire home to her house. And subsequently, I mean, she could barely live in her house because she had two houses worth of stuff. And there was one thing in particular, I was being very gentle with her because this was very hard for her and it had been many years.

And I said, okay, well, what about this? It was a washcloth. And she goes, absolutely not. That was my mom's washcloth. I can't possibly think about parting with it. And I just remember I only went there once. I think it was too much for her. Right. And you just realize it makes you sad that some people are not going to be able to get out from underneath it.

For a very long time. Yeah. And we don't understand it, but it's so personal to them. 

Missi McKown: Absolutely and I think that's why it's important to have a keep for right now section when you're organizing with people in grief, because When they're not sure, they're truly not sure. So let, yeah, to your point, there's no sense in pushing.

I, I just always err on the side of caution anyway. So I'm like, okay, sounds great. Let's keep it. And then we just decide where we're going to keep it. And if they're open to it, you know, when would you like to revisit it again? But for some folks, that's not necessary. If they have the space in the storage room, like it can just sit there until they're ready.

Melissa Klug: What are some of the things that you find, or is there any commonality of the people that are reaching out to you? in terms of, have they had just some sort of like a breakthrough of it's the time, or? 

Missi McKown: One that reached out last month said that her partner had passed away suddenly from a heart attack.

And she said, well, I know I'm not going to stay in this house. Yeah. And she goes, but I don't know when I'm going to move, but I know that I won't stay here forever. And she said, but there's been one storage room and the whole rest of the house, neat as a pin, one storage room where they literally it was right across from the guest room.

So they would lock the door when they had guests. Cause they didn't want anyone to go in it. And 

Melissa Klug: not even accidentally oops, the 

Missi McKown: bathroom's in here. Don't go in there. You, we locked it. And I just thought that was so cute and clever. And they yeah, and it was just a regular old storage room, you know, stuff where you don't know where it goes.

It just went in there. It was nothing too overwhelming, but it was overwhelming for her, which made all the sense in the world because now she's alone. And that, looking at that space that really hadn't been touched in most of the 20

So anyway, it was just an incredible opportunity to enter in and go through it and she said to me day one, she goes just so you know, I'm not, I don't want to go through it item by item. I want to just open a box and say, let it all go. And I said, I hear you. And may I share a story with you? And she said, sure.

And I said, I recently worked with a client where we were going through photos and she told us, you know, I don't think you need to go through the photos. But we were just getting all the photos together. We were separating the photos from the paperwork, just even from an acid point of view to keep, you know, everything from discoloring earlier than it should.

And I said, at the bottom of this box of photos was a very small box and it looked like it was something incredibly sentimental. There was some cursive handwriting in there and a very tiny bracelet. And we found out when we gave it back to the client that her mom had passed away suddenly when she was only 21, I think, and It was a bracelet from when she was on her first birthday that her mom had put on her and wrote a little note to her on her very first birthday.

And she hadn't seen that bracelet in literally decades. And she was blown away. She's like, Missi, I had no idea where this was. I didn't even know if it still existed. I would have never. ever looked in that box, and she's like, this is more precious to me than anything else that you did today. Even what you did is incredible.

She's like, I love that I can walk in my storage room now. Yeah, right. But this means so much. And so she got to go on a FaceTime call with her sister in a different state that night, and look at it together, read it together, laugh together, cry together, share stories about their mom. And she followed up with me to tell me that, because she still was just so in love with this gift that we had found.

So I shared that story with the client and she goes, You don't think that I should just open a box and say it should all go? I said, I really don't. I said, I would feel absolutely horrible if there was something somewhere that was meaningful and later you were wondering, gosh, whatever happened to that thing?

I wonder where it went. And she goes, okay. I'll let you go through every item. I said, I'll, I can sort it, you know, and I can do that pretty quickly. But I do want you to have a clear yes or no on what stays or what goes. And she also tried to speed up the process too. And I slowed her down again.

I, and she's I want it all done in one day. And I said, I could bring in the team and we can get it all done in one day, but man, would you feel overwhelmed at the end of the day? That would be so many decisions for one day. And she goes, you think I should do two? I said, I think you should do two with less people here.

Yes. 

Melissa Klug: And maybe a week apart or yeah, 

Missi McKown: we did have a week apart. I said that you definitely, we should not do it back to back. No, we did. It's one full week apart. And I love that you thought that. Yep. And it was beautiful. She had such treasures in there. She got to tell a story after story of her partner and the adventures that they went on.

They, she had even made like a, our little adventure book all up and. I mean, just It was a beautiful time, and she was like, I can't believe how much fun this was. She's like, I didn't expect to share stories about, you know, our life together and our marriage. And she's like, but that, that just made the whole experience even better.

I'm wondering if it would be helpful just to have that in mind when working, especially with widows or widowers just to create some space for them to share stories, because as someone who has lost someone.

I know that I love it when someone asks me about my brother by name, or they'll say Do you remember when Justin did this? And I'll be like, Oh my gosh, yeah, that was ridiculous. Or he, cause he was a very funny guy, right? And so there's always some goofy story, or a joke he did, or a prank, or, you know, whatever.

There's so many of those out there floating around with his friends and family. And Once your person is gone, the only thing you have left are stories. And if you're, don't get the opportunity to share it, or people make you feel like they don't want to hear it it's such a gift when someone says, well, tell me about your partner or tell me about how you met or, you know, there's so many opportunities to connect there.

And again, I have to go back to, you got to read the room, you know, some people are not ready and they may not want to, but if you've done the consult and everything, you've probably gotten a feel for. What kind of person you're working with. And when you do get someone who wants to share, it can just be a really beautiful point of connection.

Melissa Klug: I totally agree with you, especially, it's actually a great way. I think to get people who are having a harder time going through the things, if they can sometimes talk about it, if you're like, Hey, tell me about. You know, tell me about this X, Y, Z thing. Tell, or especially if it's sentimental items oh, I see your mom graduated from high school in 1930.

That must've been, you know, I have a client that I saw his mom's yearbook and I'm like, tell me all about it. And I was reading all the inscriptions and, , and you just, people love. Not everybody, but most people that are working through these things want to tell those stories and it actually makes the process I would argue it makes it faster, not slower, because if you let them work through some of those stories, it makes them more comfortable of like I can do this.

Missi McKown: Yep. Yeah, no, I agree with that. And it's more fun for you too. I mean, to connect to the person whose stuff that you're sorting through and Yeah, this goes back to me mentioning earlier. Yeah, I am a naturally curious person. You know, I want to 

Melissa Klug: know, I consider our job to be archaeology a little bit. You're uncovering all the layers of a family or a person or whatever.

And again, this may not be your jam, in which case, please call Missi or me, we'll totally take care of it for you. But It I do think if this is something that you're attached to I think sometimes people, especially maybe newer organizers think, Oh, I have to keep it professional. And I shouldn't ask this question.

And when I know they're, especially when you're dealing with people that are going through sentimental items, really asking those questions, I think it makes it a really, it makes the process better for them. And it really shows that you care, which we do. Absolutely. What do you think you do differently because of your personal, experiences?

I'm 

Missi McKown: real gentle. I don't know that changed though. I feel let's see. It's a great question. What do I do differently because Justin has gone?

Yeah, I, it probably is asking More questions and letting people share stories because I know what a gift it is to me when people still remember. Oh, yeah, no, I have a story about this. So I was working with a client who was unable to go downstairs but needed us to, to declutter some items downstairs.

So while we were down there, I came across What is it called? Needlepoint? Oh yeah. cross stitch. Yeah. Of their wedding date. And it was coming up. And so I quick put a little memo in my calendar to remember. And took a picture of it. And so on my client's anniversary date and her partner was gone. And this was how we connected.

I mean. There's a little blurb about grief on my website, but you kind of have to do an archaeological dig to find it on the about page. It's like an Easter egg. But, when people find it, and they have grief that they've been experiencing too, that's a really great connection point, and I'm very comfortable talking about the loss of my brother and death in general, and all sorts of fun stuff.

We had connected and had the world's longest consultation because of that. And so I told her all about my brother, she told me all about her husband, we felt like we knew each other's person by the time that we were leaving. And, when it was her anniversary, I texted her that photo, and I said, Hey, I found this when I was downstairs, you know, a month ago, and just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you today.

And, she was like, blown away and so grateful. Because I think, as, when you have lost someone, I think the biggest fear, or at least it has been for me, is that other people are going to forget about my person too. And so when somebody shows up and shows that they remember it was my brother's birthday recently, and I had still a few friends, even it's been nine years now since he passed away, and still a few friends texted to be like, hey, I'm thinking about Justin today.

I just wanted to let you know, thinking about you and your family. And it means so much because he's not here. And so for other people to remember when he was and the gift that his presence was in the world, it means so much. Any kind of touchpoint for your client to show that you can remember and acknowledge their person I will just say that goes a 

Melissa Klug: long way.

And even if you don't get the exact day, right? No, an approximate day you know, especially if it's around a hall, I have a friend who lost her mom right around Christmas. So Christmas is very hard. And so even if it's just around that time and just say Hey, I'm thinking about you. That person is more than likely not going to be like, wow, they didn't get the exact day.

Just reach out.. Even if it's after. 

Missi McKown: Oh yeah, I mean, I've got some dear friends that do it like a week early, and I'm like, yeah, close enough. Yeah, you know, they're thinking of me, and they're trying to show that they care, and I mean, they are showing that they care, and it's just, yeah, it's all beautiful and lovely, and the seasonality is so great too.

You're right. My aunt who lost two husbands over Christmas. Oh, that makes me really sad. Yeah. So she, she compensated by really decorating her little heart out. I would do. Yeah. 

Melissa Klug: Yeah. But this is another example of exactly what we were talking about with Sarah and she even, you know, had grief as one of her examples.

But if this is something that you have, unfortunately developed a specialty in, and I wish that weren't the case, you know, I wish that you had all of your people, but you know, if you have something that you are like, I have been through this. And so I understand it, whatever that looks like. for you.

Just if you are comfortable talking about it, like you have a little blurb on your website, if you are comfortable talking about it, put that there because it's just going to be another sign for people that like you get me and you feel me to the extent that, that feels good. Good for you to do.

Missi McKown: Right. Right. Cause yeah, cause there are people that are, especially with all the different organizers out there right now, they're looking to see. If they can connect with you online, you know, I can, they read something that makes them go, Oh yeah, that's the person I want to work with. So if you've got anything, if it's, I don't know, Sarah made a long list to go back and watch the podcast.

Go 

Melissa Klug: watch Sarah's episode. Link is in the show notes. Will you? I will. I will. The other thing that I'm going to say, I never talked about Marie once on this podcast, so just go with me again. But, and Marie's a really great person. You're not, but other people don't. There's some organizers that aren't a fan of Marie, but anyway, I love her. And I, her first show that came out in 2019, there is an episode. Her name is Margie and they end up calling her KonMargie at the end, which is really fun. Margie. I can't remember how you pronounce it, but her episode is all about grief. She had lost her husband and in the first part of the episode, so just go watch it.

It's really good. But You know, she was not at all. She was like, we're not touching his things. They will not be a part of this process. And through the process, as they started going through it, she realized she was ready. And so then it's showing her working through his things. It's just a very beautiful episode.

And I highly recommend if you are thinking about this as a subject, we can, we should probably find the old Peter Walsh one, if that is out there on the internet. somewhere, but, you know, really just thinking about some of the TV shows that you can watch that deal with this too, that give you some ideas.

I think it's always easy to watch a TV show and get ideas. We're going to make you read some books and then we're going to make you watch some TV on grief. So yeah, 

Missi McKown: everybody's got a signed reading and watching, 

Melissa Klug: Tell me your favorite thing about your brother. No, 

Missi McKown: gal. He could really work a room.

He could just have people eating out of the palm of his hand. He was very funny and witty. Quick witted. He loved vocabulary words. So any kind of thing that he could turn into a pun, he was a big fan of. And they were clever. You had to listen carefully for them or be like, I see what you did there. And he was just goofy and light hearted my sister in law and I post mortem diagnosed him with ADHD.

Oh, of course. Yeah, the life of the party, I mean, all of that is true, and he also just cared so deeply about his family. And I didn't see too much of that until he got sick, and he wrote a lot as he was fighting cancer in his CaringBridge website, and it was really cool just as a sister to read the thoughts that were going on inside of his head, and my dad had something really cool to say about it he said when people get squeezed, you kind of see what they're made out of, and and he said Justin just kind of emanated from that.

Goodness at the end and a tenderness and some of that may have been, you know, the possibility of facing death I'm sure would cause one to reflect But he was a stubborn fighter funny, I mean just Yeah, I'm definitely I was teasing with my sister in law because I said I know it's February, and February is the month my brother was born, I said, so I kind of just see Justin everywhere, and she goes, you see the world through Justin colored lenses?

I was like, I do! In February, I do! And, Yeah, we were watching my niece's swim meet, and she's, you know, in her in between meets, they're freezing, and it's like a sauna in there for all 

Melissa Klug: of them. It's so hot. Ugh, so hot. Yeah, 

Missi McKown: right. And even if you come in layers, and you're stripped down to as little as possible, but it's always in winter in Minnesota, so it's a thing, but anyway but his my niece's daughter is got like this swim cap on and then in between laps or races or whatever they're called meets I don't know any anyway in between when she's swimming She's got this giant jacket on so all you can see is her face And I said her face is still the same like you remember when she was just two years old and she looked just like the spitting image of my brother and my sister in law was so Bugged by it because she was just like, what is she going to look like me?

Like right now she just looks like Justin in a dress. And I, and so I said, it might just be February, but it really just looks like his face. She goes, no, it is. And it was just really sweet. And then she had a moment that she shared that a couple of days later where she had another kind of Justin colored lenses moment.

And I don't know, it's just. Grief is like beautiful because you get to remember your person and it's also like the worst because it's reminding you that your person isn't here and yeah, that part's tough. 

Melissa Klug: Well, we appreciate you sharing and I think it's really a gift that you, cause I know this is hard to talk about, so I just, I really appreciate that you were willing to talk about it with us and help us be better with our clients because I really.

We've used the word gift several times, but it is a gift to be able to sit with someone and help them work through possibly the hardest part of the grieving process, which is the physical things, because there's so much emotion tied up in the physical things of, like you said about the vacuum. Well, if we say goodbye to this vacuum, like mom is not in it.

You know that emotionally, but you know, or you know, it logically, but you don't know it. Yeah. You don't know it emotionally. And so those. Those things are very hard. And so I think that is really to have someone ask you to help with that, just treating them with the most tenderness possible.

And then also, if they're not acting that concerned about it, just make sure that you're being really careful that it's not going to be a delayed, like you said, you know, there's grief everywhere. People process it very differently, but it's a gift to be able to help people through that process. Yeah, and 

Missi McKown: I loved what you said, too, about checking in with the person if they do start having some tears while you're working together, you know.

On the side of letting people have their own space. And then when they come back, be like, you know, there was a moment there. Do you want to be alone when that happens, or would you like me to sit next to you? You know, a person with you and it's such a gentle way of asking that. I don't think there's any possible way that could be construed as negative.

So just encouragement to yeah, just ask how to be the most supportive. 

Melissa Klug: I love it. 

Missi McKown: Well, thank you for sharing 

Melissa Klug: with us. I really, I appreciate you very much. Just like your client. I also appreciate you very much. And where can people find you in the great wide, big world? 

Missi McKown: In the great wide world web you can find Clear Spaces Organizing on Instagram as @clearspacesorganizing

you can find me on Facebook at Clear Spaces Organizing MN for Minnesota. And the website is CreatingClearSpaces, three words, dot com. 

Melissa Klug: Love it. And one of the things that makes me a little sad, people don't realize this sometimes If the Twin Cities is a circle, Missi and I live on the exact polar opposite sides of the circle.

Like we could not be farther away from each other and still be in the twin cities metro area. So I don't get to see her in person as much as I would like to, but I get to see her electronically a lot. And I'm very grateful that I know you and I'm grateful that I can refer clients to you. And I'm grateful that I just need to text with you.

And I'm just, I'm grateful for all the things. So thank you for being my friend. 

Missi McKown: Thank you, too. I really enjoy you for many reasons. Your quick wit and spunky sense of humor is one of my favorites. 

Melissa Klug: Thank you. Well, not everyone enjoys it, but for the people that do, it's available 24 7. Thank you so much.

Thank you. 

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